9 ms·

Russia is fascist by assimilation (in contrast to the Third Reich which was fascist by exclusion). As in, you either call yourself russian or get marginalized.

Russia is fascist by assimilation (in contrast to the Third Reich which was fascist by exclusion). As in, you either call yourself russian or get marginalized. It's so pervasive that people stopped noticing it. There are 200 ethnicities, yet all the federal websites are only in russian and maybe english. This is why Putin has this fetish for "Ukraine is not a country / we are the same people" narrative.

gdy 4y ago
"you either call yourself russian or get marginalized" Marginalized for not calling themselves Russian? Marginalized how? "yet all the federal websites are only in russian and maybe english" That's true, but only 3% of Russian citizens are Tatar language speakers and there are even fewer speakers for other languages. Maybe you'll tell me where I can find Spanish version of the Congress website?
- marshray 4y ago
  > only 3% of Russian citizens are Tatar language speakers and there are even fewer speakers for other languages Ever stopped to wonder why that might be the case?
  - cpursley 4y ago
    For similar reasons that people in the US no longer speak German, Dutch or various British Isle dialects (and the reason after a couple generations, Spanish speaking immigrants are more fluent in English than Spanish).
    - mistrial9 4y ago
      the world is not that different in some ways than five hundred years ago.. there are literate people and illiterate people, on a large scale. The rise and fall of literate languages is not the same story as the number of people that speak a language, or what colors are on the local police car. It is not popular to speak of this in the USA since there is a "unifying myth" of equality. What the USA did do brilliantly is use markets and local jurisdictions to let warring people settle nearby each other, and thrive. Over time the old ways show up however. Evolution is not practiced uniformly.
    - stonogo 4y ago
      There are parts of the US that still have German-language newspapers. Detroit had a Dutch newspaper until 2018. Whether it closed because it was Dutch or because newspapers as a product are on the decline is academic; the point is that people in the US do speak German, Dutch, and various British Isle dialects, and furthermore there are third-, fourth- and more-generation Spanish-speaking people throughout the south and west. It's a big country, and a lot happens outside your neighborhood.
      - cpursley 4y ago
        Yeah, but a lot of it has (unfortunately) dissapeared. Especially during the anti-German episode related to WWII. Assimilation happens by various means.
    - jevgeni 4y ago
      US didn't annex the Germans or the Dutch into their country. Stop pretending that russia somehow grew peacefully.
      - gdy 4y ago
        Did the US grew peacefully? I mean all the territory of the United States was taken from Native Americans. Do you get as agitated about this as you are about Russia?
        jevgeni 4y ago
        But Native Americans weren't Dutch, were they? Immigrants CHOSE to come to the USA and CHOSE to adapt. A bit different in case of most russian minorities. If you consider what the Americans did to the natives bad (which you should) you should be as concerned for russian minorities. This "if Americans are bad, we should be allowed to be bad as well" take is tiresome.
        gdy 4y ago
        What exactly should I be concerned about? Disappearing small languages? I am, but what about it is specific to Russia? "This "if Americans are bad, we should be allowed to be bad as well" take is tiresome." Of course it is tiresome. Especially after you say 'American history is good, Russian history is bad' and get reminded about Native Americans. So tiresome!
  - gdy 4y ago
    You seem to have an answer. Would you mind sharing it?
    - marshray 4y ago
      Systematic genocide.
      - gdy 4y ago
        Care to elaborate?
        marshray 4y ago
        The current genocide against Ukrainian-ness is one example. Some other examples: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deportation_of_the_Crimean_Tatars https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deportation_of_the_Crimean_Tat... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Population_transfer_in_the_Soviet_Union https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Population_transfer_in_the_Sov...
        gdy 4y ago
        What I've seen look like war crimes, what is the argument for qualifying them as genocide? Stalin's (and bolshevik's in general) crimes are horrible, but ethnic Russians weren't safe from them either. Have you seen breakdown of their victims by ethnicity?
        marshray 4y ago
        The point is that Russia is the largest country by land area, composed of a great many regions and ethnicities, and yet all the language-speakers have vanished. This didn't happen by accident. It is the result of a program of systematic, violent, erasure.
        gdy 4y ago
        "yet all the language-speakers have vanished" Now that is just false. [0][1] [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Languages_of_Russia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Languages_of_Russia [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_languages_of_Russia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_languages_of_Russia
- jevgeni 4y ago
  So at which percentage of the population should you start to respect the culture of minorities? I'll make it even easier. Go to any LOCAL government website in Russia where there is a concentration of these ethnic minorities and find me a version in their language. Good examples of treatment of minorities are Finland with their treatment of the Swedish minorities there.
  - cpursley 4y ago
    Yeah, sure: - Komi Republic (Komi - a Finnish/Uralic language): https://gov.rkomi.ru/kv/kontakty-pravitelstva-respubliki-komi https://gov.rkomi.ru/kv/kontakty-pravitelstva-respubliki-kom... - Tartarstan (Tartar language): https://tatarstan.ru/tat/ https://tatarstan.ru/tat/ - Adygheya Republic (Adyghe aka West Circassian): http://www.adygheya.ru/ady/ http://www.adygheya.ru/ady/ That's just a handful that I'm personally familiar with. It's easier to search in Cyrillic.
    - jevgeni 4y ago
      Cool! Let's validate. Let's find a useful content page in russian and see if it works say in Tartar. https://tatarstan.ru/documents.htm https://tatarstan.ru/documents.htm So, a guide through all the relevant administrative documents you might need. Let's click the "TAT" button to switch to the Tartar language... Oh wait, what's this? It doesn't exist? Imagine that. Another Potemkin website. The most ironic thing is that the "Report of the Tatarstan Foundation for Citizen's Right Protection" (PDF) is russian only. Regarding your pre-edit statement about seething in anti-russian hate: if russians don't like it, they can stop invading, stealing and killing. Maybe that'll help?
      - cpursley 4y ago
        So bigotry and hatred is okay against all Russians. Got it. Glad my country never invaded or killed anyone recently...
        jevgeni 4y ago
spoiler 4y ago
Isn't Putin saying that parts of Ukraine which voted in a referendum that they'd like to join Russia should stop being bullied by Azov neo-nazies[1][2], and that's one of the reasons why this whole kerfuffle in Ukraine started (the other two being Ukraine's new interest in NATO, and claims of research US military facilities near the Ukraine-Russia border, or plans for one[2]). Also, if someone's genuinely interested in my "sources" I'm willing to put in the work and post them, but didn't want to waste time in case people can't be bothered to be critical and click the links, and I also don't have a horse in this race, but the whole "America best, everyone bad" mentality literally reeks of indoctrination and lack of critical thinking that indoctrination and gaslighting cause, and it's worrying that it's happening in America of all places (which I admired for human rights and freedom of expression and thought, at least until recently). For reference, some were older BBC and CNN articles, a few YouTube videos, and a Quora thread which duplicates some of these. [1]: Which the US military is supplying weapons to, apparently [2] Maybe I fell victim to not appropriately fact checking some propaganda though, but I'm also not sure how to fact check something like this, and... The truth of the matter is that the US has done much worse in the past. Aside: This whole "everything is a propaganda machine" is so frustrating, and I hate that there's literally nothing you can trust these days. I honestly can't even tell if I'm "paranoid" to think so. It just so very saddening, and despite some people's best efforts, it seems human nature is truly disappointing everywhere we turn.
- jevgeni 4y ago
  You can fact check it by going to the website of the people you are calling neonazis (Azov) and find a neonazi agenda. It was never really about NATO [1] for the russians, but as Putin said in his initial speech at the beginning of the invasion to "find a final solution to the Ukrainian question). If you want to see the origin of russian ethno-fascism, try to find an early 2000s russian action film called "Brother 2" (Брат 2). It was immensely popular in russia at the time and is the most racist thing I've ever seen. 1 - https://www.reuters.com/world/asia-pacific/exclusive-war-began-putin-rejected-ukraine-peace-deal-recommended-by-his-aide-2022-09-14/ https://www.reuters.com/world/asia-pacific/exclusive-war-beg...
  - 4y ago
ClumsyPilot 4y ago
> you either call yourself russian or get marginalized. It's so pervasive that people stopped noticing it. There is massive racism in Russian society, the various awareness movements that happened in the West never happened in Russia. One could compare the way USA has treated native people, and many issues would be similar. Additionally, some of the ehnicities have beef with each-other that sometimes sparks into armed conflict. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/East_Prigorodny_conflict https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/East_Prigorodny_conflict
- cpursley 4y ago
  Please stop with this "clumsy" bigoted BS. It's against HN policy and will get you banned.
  - jevgeni 4y ago
    Are you dang?

gdy 4y ago

"you either call yourself russian or get marginalized" Marginalized for not calling themselves Russian? Marginalized how? "yet all the federal websites are only in russian and maybe english" That's true, but only 3% of Russian citizens are Tatar language speakers and there are even fewer speakers for other languages. Maybe you'll tell me where I can find Spanish version of the Congress website?

marshray 4y ago
> only 3% of Russian citizens are Tatar language speakers and there are even fewer speakers for other languages Ever stopped to wonder why that might be the case?
- cpursley 4y ago
  For similar reasons that people in the US no longer speak German, Dutch or various British Isle dialects (and the reason after a couple generations, Spanish speaking immigrants are more fluent in English than Spanish).
  - mistrial9 4y ago
    the world is not that different in some ways than five hundred years ago.. there are literate people and illiterate people, on a large scale. The rise and fall of literate languages is not the same story as the number of people that speak a language, or what colors are on the local police car. It is not popular to speak of this in the USA since there is a "unifying myth" of equality. What the USA did do brilliantly is use markets and local jurisdictions to let warring people settle nearby each other, and thrive. Over time the old ways show up however. Evolution is not practiced uniformly.
  - stonogo 4y ago
    There are parts of the US that still have German-language newspapers. Detroit had a Dutch newspaper until 2018. Whether it closed because it was Dutch or because newspapers as a product are on the decline is academic; the point is that people in the US do speak German, Dutch, and various British Isle dialects, and furthermore there are third-, fourth- and more-generation Spanish-speaking people throughout the south and west. It's a big country, and a lot happens outside your neighborhood.
    - cpursley 4y ago
      Yeah, but a lot of it has (unfortunately) dissapeared. Especially during the anti-German episode related to WWII. Assimilation happens by various means.
  - jevgeni 4y ago
    US didn't annex the Germans or the Dutch into their country. Stop pretending that russia somehow grew peacefully.
    - gdy 4y ago
      Did the US grew peacefully? I mean all the territory of the United States was taken from Native Americans. Do you get as agitated about this as you are about Russia?
      - jevgeni 4y ago
        But Native Americans weren't Dutch, were they? Immigrants CHOSE to come to the USA and CHOSE to adapt. A bit different in case of most russian minorities. If you consider what the Americans did to the natives bad (which you should) you should be as concerned for russian minorities. This "if Americans are bad, we should be allowed to be bad as well" take is tiresome.
        gdy 4y ago
        What exactly should I be concerned about? Disappearing small languages? I am, but what about it is specific to Russia? "This "if Americans are bad, we should be allowed to be bad as well" take is tiresome." Of course it is tiresome. Especially after you say 'American history is good, Russian history is bad' and get reminded about Native Americans. So tiresome!
- gdy 4y ago
  You seem to have an answer. Would you mind sharing it?
  - marshray 4y ago
    Systematic genocide.
    - gdy 4y ago
      Care to elaborate?
      - marshray 4y ago
        The current genocide against Ukrainian-ness is one example. Some other examples: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deportation_of_the_Crimean_Tatars https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deportation_of_the_Crimean_Tat... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Population_transfer_in_the_Soviet_Union https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Population_transfer_in_the_Sov...
        gdy 4y ago
        What I've seen look like war crimes, what is the argument for qualifying them as genocide? Stalin's (and bolshevik's in general) crimes are horrible, but ethnic Russians weren't safe from them either. Have you seen breakdown of their victims by ethnicity?
        marshray 4y ago
        The point is that Russia is the largest country by land area, composed of a great many regions and ethnicities, and yet all the language-speakers have vanished. This didn't happen by accident. It is the result of a program of systematic, violent, erasure.
        gdy 4y ago
        "yet all the language-speakers have vanished" Now that is just false. [0][1] [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Languages_of_Russia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Languages_of_Russia [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_languages_of_Russia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_languages_of_Russia
jevgeni 4y ago
So at which percentage of the population should you start to respect the culture of minorities? I'll make it even easier. Go to any LOCAL government website in Russia where there is a concentration of these ethnic minorities and find me a version in their language. Good examples of treatment of minorities are Finland with their treatment of the Swedish minorities there.
- cpursley 4y ago
  Yeah, sure: - Komi Republic (Komi - a Finnish/Uralic language): https://gov.rkomi.ru/kv/kontakty-pravitelstva-respubliki-komi https://gov.rkomi.ru/kv/kontakty-pravitelstva-respubliki-kom... - Tartarstan (Tartar language): https://tatarstan.ru/tat/ https://tatarstan.ru/tat/ - Adygheya Republic (Adyghe aka West Circassian): http://www.adygheya.ru/ady/ http://www.adygheya.ru/ady/ That's just a handful that I'm personally familiar with. It's easier to search in Cyrillic.
  - jevgeni 4y ago
    Cool! Let's validate. Let's find a useful content page in russian and see if it works say in Tartar. https://tatarstan.ru/documents.htm https://tatarstan.ru/documents.htm So, a guide through all the relevant administrative documents you might need. Let's click the "TAT" button to switch to the Tartar language... Oh wait, what's this? It doesn't exist? Imagine that. Another Potemkin website. The most ironic thing is that the "Report of the Tatarstan Foundation for Citizen's Right Protection" (PDF) is russian only. Regarding your pre-edit statement about seething in anti-russian hate: if russians don't like it, they can stop invading, stealing and killing. Maybe that'll help?
    - cpursley 4y ago
      So bigotry and hatred is okay against all Russians. Got it. Glad my country never invaded or killed anyone recently...
      - jevgeni 4y ago

spoiler 4y ago

Isn't Putin saying that parts of Ukraine which voted in a referendum that they'd like to join Russia should stop being bullied by Azov neo-nazies[1][2], and that's one of the reasons why this whole kerfuffle in Ukraine started (the other two being Ukraine's new interest in NATO, and claims of research US military facilities near the Ukraine-Russia border, or plans for one[2]). Also, if someone's genuinely interested in my "sources" I'm willing to put in the work and post them, but didn't want to waste time in case people can't be bothered to be critical and click the links, and I also don't have a horse in this race, but the whole "America best, everyone bad" mentality literally reeks of indoctrination and lack of critical thinking that indoctrination and gaslighting cause, and it's worrying that it's happening in America of all places (which I admired for human rights and freedom of expression and thought, at least until recently). For reference, some were older BBC and CNN articles, a few YouTube videos, and a Quora thread which duplicates some of these. [1]: Which the US military is supplying weapons to, apparently [2] Maybe I fell victim to not appropriately fact checking some propaganda though, but I'm also not sure how to fact check something like this, and... The truth of the matter is that the US has done much worse in the past. Aside: This whole "everything is a propaganda machine" is so frustrating, and I hate that there's literally nothing you can trust these days. I honestly can't even tell if I'm "paranoid" to think so. It just so very saddening, and despite some people's best efforts, it seems human nature is truly disappointing everywhere we turn.

jevgeni 4y ago
You can fact check it by going to the website of the people you are calling neonazis (Azov) and find a neonazi agenda. It was never really about NATO [1] for the russians, but as Putin said in his initial speech at the beginning of the invasion to "find a final solution to the Ukrainian question). If you want to see the origin of russian ethno-fascism, try to find an early 2000s russian action film called "Brother 2" (Брат 2). It was immensely popular in russia at the time and is the most racist thing I've ever seen. 1 - https://www.reuters.com/world/asia-pacific/exclusive-war-began-putin-rejected-ukraine-peace-deal-recommended-by-his-aide-2022-09-14/ https://www.reuters.com/world/asia-pacific/exclusive-war-beg...
- 4y ago

ClumsyPilot 4y ago

> you either call yourself russian or get marginalized. It's so pervasive that people stopped noticing it. There is massive racism in Russian society, the various awareness movements that happened in the West never happened in Russia. One could compare the way USA has treated native people, and many issues would be similar. Additionally, some of the ehnicities have beef with each-other that sometimes sparks into armed conflict. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/East_Prigorodny_conflict https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/East_Prigorodny_conflict

cpursley 4y ago
Please stop with this "clumsy" bigoted BS. It's against HN policy and will get you banned.
- jevgeni 4y ago
  Are you dang?