4 ms·

If I were one of the internal tools programmers, I wouldn't be "extremely disappointed" by this leak... I'm seriously impressed by the quality of the internal

by YPPH 4y ago

If I were one of the internal tools programmers, I wouldn't be "extremely disappointed" by this leak... I'm seriously impressed by the quality of the internal tooling. All that effort only to be seen and used internally. And yet they still polish the UI! Most of the internal tools where I work look terrible, unless they're web based where some framework can do the hand holding.

Comevius 4y ago
They are using imgui. It would be hard to find a game studio that doesn't. https://github.com/ocornut/imgui https://github.com/ocornut/imgui
- Karsteski 4y ago
  It's great that DearImgui is used in so many places! I immediately noticed it. It got me started on GUIs in C++ a few years ago when I was new to programming :)
- bmitc 4y ago
  Just dropping a note that the developers want it referred to as Dear ImGui. https://github.com/ocornut/imgui/blob/master/docs/FAQ.md#q-what-is-this-library-called https://github.com/ocornut/imgui/blob/master/docs/FAQ.md#q-w...
  - 3np 4y ago
    Such an awkward thing to be particular about. Renaming the repo and binary to dimgui or something would be so much more impactful in this than running around correcting people for using the actual name of both the repo and binary when referring to the application. If I was asked by Bram Moolenaar to start calling vim "dear vim" starting tomorrow I would kindly tell them to fork off (and do a proper rename in the process ;)) (I don't mean that you are "running around" but someone is)
    - spoils19 4y ago
      - tentacleuno 4y ago
        Not sure what you mean by woke ...? The name was changed because it conflicted with the general concept of immediate mode GUI.
      - jamiek88 4y ago
    - _gabe_ 4y ago
      If I understand correctly, the reason the developers are picky about it is because imgui has become common vernacular for a certain style of gui rendering. You have retained mode guis rmguis, and immediate mode guis, imguis. It would be like if you initially named your project SQL before SQL was just a common name for any query language in a SQL-like syntax. Almost nobody actually means the SQL that IBM made when they say they use SQL, instead they usually mean they use SQLServer, or MySQL, or SQLite, or etc. Technically they are all SQL, but they all have slightly different functions and massively different internals. In the same way, there are several imgui libraries that all have similar APIs and architectures, but it's good to be specific about which specific library you're using.
    - bmitc 4y ago
      I don't mind someone being particular about a name and wanting consistency. Although, yea, I'm not sure why they haven't renamed the repository.
_joel 4y ago
Apart from the internal tooling that included plaintext passwords for their users, hence the hack.
CoryAlexMartin 4y ago
The idea of polishing dev tools used to seem counter-intuitive to me, but I’ve come around on that. The last thing you want is to dread doing your job, and if you can make parts of your job joyful, then I think you’re likely to be more productive and do better work.
- bmitc 4y ago
  My understanding is that at places like big game studios, people developing developer tooling are doing so as their full time job.
  - dijit 4y ago
    "Tools programmer" is a legitimate job title: https://career.sharkmob.com/jobs/1553252-tools-programmer https://career.sharkmob.com/jobs/1553252-tools-programmer
- tester756 4y ago
  >The idea of polishing dev tools used to seem counter-intuitive to me, but I’ve come around on that. The last thing you want is to dread doing your job, and if you can make parts of your job joyful, then I think you’re likely to be more productive and do better work. hmm? what's the difference between internal tools and normal stuff like docker, compilers, ci/cd tools, package managers, etc? it's the same shit
  - squeaky-clean 4y ago
    Have you seen any of the leaked footage? They have realtime debugging info appearing on the screen in a clear and easy to read way. It's not like a 20k line text dump of the logs you can grep through later. It looks a lot like the hacking/scanning UI from Watch Dogs except it provides debug info.
    - tester756 4y ago
      I meant that investing in UX is not weird just because those tools are internal
bmitc 4y ago
I was also blown away by the tooling shots. It almost looked like those self-driving tooling shots that get shown every now and then, which I suppose makes sense. I wish more places would show off their internal tools and how they make things, but I guess they view those things as part of their edge.
- amself 4y ago
  Tesla hires a lot of game developers :)
cypress66 4y ago
Which part of the tooling impressed you? Most of it seemed fairly common I think.
squeaky-clean 4y ago
One real issue I've seen on Reddit is people mistake the debugging tools as actually (unfinished) gameplay UI. There are lots of people angry that GTA is copying Watch Dogs, because Watch Dogs has a game mechanic that looks similar to how these debug elements look.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- gruez 4y ago
  >There are lots of people angry that GTA is copying Watch Dogs, because Watch Dogs has a game mechanic that looks similar to how these debug elements look. source? I looked at the footage and there's nothing there that could be attributed to be watch dogs, aside from basic stylistic elements like lines/wireframes that watch dogs uses as visual effects.
  - squeaky-clean 4y ago
    In the leaked video of the diner heist, the GUI that appears whenever an NPC changes state, like "HOSTAGE_COMPLY_FEMALE." People are comparing that to the "hacker view" you get in Watch Dogs where you can see info about any NPC you scan.
    - gruez 4y ago
      That's hilarious. I rewatched the video, and the text labels like "HOSTAGE_COMPLY_FEMALE" seem to correspond to placeholders for what the NPCs would say, rather than describing their state. Although to be fair, the whole point of voiceovers (and many other gameplay features) is to convey the game state to the player. That said, that's not even remotely close to what was in watch dogs, which more akin to random factoids about a NPC (eg. "has dog as a pet")

by YPPH 4y ago

Comevius 4y ago

They are using imgui. It would be hard to find a game studio that doesn't. https://github.com/ocornut/imgui https://github.com/ocornut/imgui

Karsteski 4y ago
It's great that DearImgui is used in so many places! I immediately noticed it. It got me started on GUIs in C++ a few years ago when I was new to programming :)
bmitc 4y ago
Just dropping a note that the developers want it referred to as Dear ImGui. https://github.com/ocornut/imgui/blob/master/docs/FAQ.md#q-what-is-this-library-called https://github.com/ocornut/imgui/blob/master/docs/FAQ.md#q-w...
- 3np 4y ago
  Such an awkward thing to be particular about. Renaming the repo and binary to dimgui or something would be so much more impactful in this than running around correcting people for using the actual name of both the repo and binary when referring to the application. If I was asked by Bram Moolenaar to start calling vim "dear vim" starting tomorrow I would kindly tell them to fork off (and do a proper rename in the process ;)) (I don't mean that you are "running around" but someone is)
  - spoils19 4y ago
    - tentacleuno 4y ago
      Not sure what you mean by woke ...? The name was changed because it conflicted with the general concept of immediate mode GUI.
    - jamiek88 4y ago
  - _gabe_ 4y ago
    If I understand correctly, the reason the developers are picky about it is because imgui has become common vernacular for a certain style of gui rendering. You have retained mode guis rmguis, and immediate mode guis, imguis. It would be like if you initially named your project SQL before SQL was just a common name for any query language in a SQL-like syntax. Almost nobody actually means the SQL that IBM made when they say they use SQL, instead they usually mean they use SQLServer, or MySQL, or SQLite, or etc. Technically they are all SQL, but they all have slightly different functions and massively different internals. In the same way, there are several imgui libraries that all have similar APIs and architectures, but it's good to be specific about which specific library you're using.
  - bmitc 4y ago
    I don't mind someone being particular about a name and wanting consistency. Although, yea, I'm not sure why they haven't renamed the repository.

_joel 4y ago

Apart from the internal tooling that included plaintext passwords for their users, hence the hack.

CoryAlexMartin 4y ago

The idea of polishing dev tools used to seem counter-intuitive to me, but I’ve come around on that. The last thing you want is to dread doing your job, and if you can make parts of your job joyful, then I think you’re likely to be more productive and do better work.

bmitc 4y ago
My understanding is that at places like big game studios, people developing developer tooling are doing so as their full time job.
- dijit 4y ago
  "Tools programmer" is a legitimate job title: https://career.sharkmob.com/jobs/1553252-tools-programmer https://career.sharkmob.com/jobs/1553252-tools-programmer
tester756 4y ago
>The idea of polishing dev tools used to seem counter-intuitive to me, but I’ve come around on that. The last thing you want is to dread doing your job, and if you can make parts of your job joyful, then I think you’re likely to be more productive and do better work. hmm? what's the difference between internal tools and normal stuff like docker, compilers, ci/cd tools, package managers, etc? it's the same shit
- squeaky-clean 4y ago
  Have you seen any of the leaked footage? They have realtime debugging info appearing on the screen in a clear and easy to read way. It's not like a 20k line text dump of the logs you can grep through later. It looks a lot like the hacking/scanning UI from Watch Dogs except it provides debug info.
  - tester756 4y ago
    I meant that investing in UX is not weird just because those tools are internal

bmitc 4y ago

I was also blown away by the tooling shots. It almost looked like those self-driving tooling shots that get shown every now and then, which I suppose makes sense. I wish more places would show off their internal tools and how they make things, but I guess they view those things as part of their edge.

amself 4y ago
Tesla hires a lot of game developers :)

cypress66 4y ago

Which part of the tooling impressed you? Most of it seemed fairly common I think.

squeaky-clean 4y ago

One real issue I've seen on Reddit is people mistake the debugging tools as actually (unfinished) gameplay UI. There are lots of people angry that GTA is copying Watch Dogs, because Watch Dogs has a game mechanic that looks similar to how these debug elements look.

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
gruez 4y ago
>There are lots of people angry that GTA is copying Watch Dogs, because Watch Dogs has a game mechanic that looks similar to how these debug elements look. source? I looked at the footage and there's nothing there that could be attributed to be watch dogs, aside from basic stylistic elements like lines/wireframes that watch dogs uses as visual effects.
- squeaky-clean 4y ago
  In the leaked video of the diner heist, the GUI that appears whenever an NPC changes state, like "HOSTAGE_COMPLY_FEMALE." People are comparing that to the "hacker view" you get in Watch Dogs where you can see info about any NPC you scan.
  - gruez 4y ago
    That's hilarious. I rewatched the video, and the text labels like "HOSTAGE_COMPLY_FEMALE" seem to correspond to placeholders for what the NPCs would say, rather than describing their state. Although to be fair, the whole point of voiceovers (and many other gameplay features) is to convey the game state to the player. That said, that's not even remotely close to what was in watch dogs, which more akin to random factoids about a NPC (eg. "has dog as a pet")