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> But who is actually transacting on the Bitcoin network? No one. And I doubt anyone ever really will. When it comes to all transaction metrics, Bitcoin is horr

> But who is actually transacting on the Bitcoin network? No one. And I doubt anyone ever really will. When it comes to all transaction metrics, Bitcoin is horribly unscalable and expensive to transact on. > The Bitcoin network is doing around 250k transactions per day (source). With lightning network Bitcoin scales to far greater magnitude than that, amongst other things it collapses the entire premise of the article.

xwolfi 4y ago
Why am I not using it then?
- pibechorro 4y ago
  Because you choose not to. Its out there.
  - xwolfi 4y ago
    What can I do with it ? I have many currencies in my Hong Kong bank and have very low fee, no capital gain tax, no criminal desires and no problem using cash. I also dont want to be richer or join a club.
- sunshinerag 4y ago
  Lack of awareness? Since most people’s initial interaction with Bitcoin is through exchanges, exchange adoption of lightning will increase awareness. Like how Kraken is doing it https://blog.kraken.com/post/13502/kraken-now-supports-instant-lightning-network-btc-transactions/ https://blog.kraken.com/post/13502/kraken-now-supports-insta...
DennisP 4y ago
The article mentions LN and says it may be able to scale, but not without centralizing on large hub nodes, for reasons detailed here: https://medium.com/@jonaldfyookball/mathematical-proof-that-the-lightning-network-cannot-be-a-decentralized-bitcoin-scaling-solution-1b8147650800 https://medium.com/@jonaldfyookball/mathematical-proof-that-...
- sunshinerag 4y ago
  Thanks for sharing the article. But it doesn’t refute the premise that Bitcoin scales to far more transactions than what is stated in this article. Lightning already facilitates several magnitudes higher transaction numbers. https://bottlepay.com/blog/bitcoin-lightning-benchmarking-performance https://bottlepay.com/blog/bitcoin-lightning-benchmarking-pe... Re: the authors notion that hubs are going to be huge and are going to be bank like. I think it is going to reflect societal trust model where it is employed. In a low trust environment there is going to be more hubs . In a high trust environment people would prefer to defer routing to few hubs. If hubs engage in censorship there is minimal barrier for anyone to start their own hubs and route as they prefer. This is my hypothesis anyway. Also I take serious issue with the notion that any solution that is not VISA scale is automatically ruled out. There is a lot of middle ground in organic bottom up solutions.
adoxyz 4y ago
VISA alone processes close to 600 million transactions per day. 250k would hardly be a rounding error.
- sunshinerag 4y ago
  It is more than 250k with L2 solutions.

xwolfi 4y ago

Why am I not using it then?

pibechorro 4y ago
Because you choose not to. Its out there.
- xwolfi 4y ago
  What can I do with it ? I have many currencies in my Hong Kong bank and have very low fee, no capital gain tax, no criminal desires and no problem using cash. I also dont want to be richer or join a club.
sunshinerag 4y ago
Lack of awareness? Since most people’s initial interaction with Bitcoin is through exchanges, exchange adoption of lightning will increase awareness. Like how Kraken is doing it https://blog.kraken.com/post/13502/kraken-now-supports-instant-lightning-network-btc-transactions/ https://blog.kraken.com/post/13502/kraken-now-supports-insta...

DennisP 4y ago

The article mentions LN and says it may be able to scale, but not without centralizing on large hub nodes, for reasons detailed here: https://medium.com/@jonaldfyookball/mathematical-proof-that-the-lightning-network-cannot-be-a-decentralized-bitcoin-scaling-solution-1b8147650800 https://medium.com/@jonaldfyookball/mathematical-proof-that-...

sunshinerag 4y ago
Thanks for sharing the article. But it doesn’t refute the premise that Bitcoin scales to far more transactions than what is stated in this article. Lightning already facilitates several magnitudes higher transaction numbers. https://bottlepay.com/blog/bitcoin-lightning-benchmarking-performance https://bottlepay.com/blog/bitcoin-lightning-benchmarking-pe... Re: the authors notion that hubs are going to be huge and are going to be bank like. I think it is going to reflect societal trust model where it is employed. In a low trust environment there is going to be more hubs . In a high trust environment people would prefer to defer routing to few hubs. If hubs engage in censorship there is minimal barrier for anyone to start their own hubs and route as they prefer. This is my hypothesis anyway. Also I take serious issue with the notion that any solution that is not VISA scale is automatically ruled out. There is a lot of middle ground in organic bottom up solutions.

adoxyz 4y ago

VISA alone processes close to 600 million transactions per day. 250k would hardly be a rounding error.

sunshinerag 4y ago
It is more than 250k with L2 solutions.