4 ms·

I disagree with your comment. I went to one of those high-tier universities and wish I had spent the first two years at community college. Low-level classes at

I disagree with your comment. I went to one of those high-tier universities and wish I had spent the first two years at community college. Low-level classes at big universities tend to be poorly taught, large classes, and I question their value - doubly so for general education requirements. There are tons of distractions, like partying, football, etc. Having bright classmates was also a non-factor; in many classes, and particularly STEM classes, you barely interact with classmates. I would have had a much better academic career if I'd started at a community college - I needed an environment where I could focus and mature more. Big universities (and the above) oversell the importance of connections made at school. Yes, connections matter, but how often do the connections from freshman or sophomore year matter? Many students don't even know what major they will graduate with during that time, and the best connections are those within your field.

hcks 4y ago
You may disagree but there is no counter factual in your personal experience. Wherever you ended up to, how do you know it would have been better going to a community college? The data is obviously highly biaised but when you look at top researchers, what % went to CC vs what % to top undergraduate programs? PS: I say this because I personally know people who went to top institutions lamenting that they should have went another way for some of the reasons you mentioned, and yet they all have landed nice positions wherever they wanted to go.
- grumple 4y ago
  > The data is obviously highly biased but when you look at top researchers, what % went to CC vs what % to top undergraduate programs? Right, it is biased. You need a control - two similar people with similar backgrounds. People going to CC are usually not doing so by choice. I think that ultimately, some people are going to be successful regardless of the path they take. Universities attempt to capture the recognition for where their attendees end up, but I think that has more to do with the attendees than the universities.
gwd 4y ago
> Having bright classmates was also a non-factor; in many classes, and particularly STEM classes, you barely interact with classmates. I, on the other hand, had loads of group projects in my freshman and sophomore years; and as most of us were used to being the top of our class and having to "carry" other team members who weren't invested, we all had a refreshing realization that, "Hey cool -- everyone here is both smart and motivated!" Don't know how different that would have been at community college, but I certainly benefitted from having smart and motivated classmates my first two years of university. > Yes, connections matter, but how often do the connections from freshman or sophomore year matter? The people I met in my hall at the dorm freshman year constituted the core of my friendship group throughout the rest of university; and I'm still in contact with a large number of them. I'd say a larger than average number of that group went on to advanced degrees like PhD or law degrees. Influence matters. Would I have gotten a PhD myself if I had started at community college? Maybe, maybe not: hard to tell. But I am glad that I went all four years. (That said, I only graduated with a single four-digit student loan; those two years would certainly not have been worth a six-digit loan.)

hcks 4y ago

You may disagree but there is no counter factual in your personal experience. Wherever you ended up to, how do you know it would have been better going to a community college? The data is obviously highly biaised but when you look at top researchers, what % went to CC vs what % to top undergraduate programs? PS: I say this because I personally know people who went to top institutions lamenting that they should have went another way for some of the reasons you mentioned, and yet they all have landed nice positions wherever they wanted to go.

grumple 4y ago
> The data is obviously highly biased but when you look at top researchers, what % went to CC vs what % to top undergraduate programs? Right, it is biased. You need a control - two similar people with similar backgrounds. People going to CC are usually not doing so by choice. I think that ultimately, some people are going to be successful regardless of the path they take. Universities attempt to capture the recognition for where their attendees end up, but I think that has more to do with the attendees than the universities.

gwd 4y ago

> Having bright classmates was also a non-factor; in many classes, and particularly STEM classes, you barely interact with classmates. I, on the other hand, had loads of group projects in my freshman and sophomore years; and as most of us were used to being the top of our class and having to "carry" other team members who weren't invested, we all had a refreshing realization that, "Hey cool -- everyone here is both smart and motivated!" Don't know how different that would have been at community college, but I certainly benefitted from having smart and motivated classmates my first two years of university. > Yes, connections matter, but how often do the connections from freshman or sophomore year matter? The people I met in my hall at the dorm freshman year constituted the core of my friendship group throughout the rest of university; and I'm still in contact with a large number of them. I'd say a larger than average number of that group went on to advanced degrees like PhD or law degrees. Influence matters. Would I have gotten a PhD myself if I had started at community college? Maybe, maybe not: hard to tell. But I am glad that I went all four years. (That said, I only graduated with a single four-digit student loan; those two years would certainly not have been worth a six-digit loan.)