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Who is at War exactly ? [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nord_Stream_2#US_sanctions_and_subsequent_waiver_and_negotiations https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nord_

Who is at War exactly ? [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nord_Stream_2#US_sanctions_and_subsequent_waiver_and_negotiations https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nord_Stream_2#US_sanctions_and... [2] > Alternatives to Russian supplies—including LNG from the U.S. and other countries

yread 4y ago
Depends who you ask: Russia: NATO is at war with us. We're not at war with anyone cause it's a special military operation Everyone else: Russia and Ukraine are at war
- diimdeep 4y ago
  > Depends who you ask: Well, you will hear some opinion, based on some perspective. Almost always it is not whole truth, but a subset of facts. But there is so much more at play. What bothers me is how western news manipulative and no one really notice. News giving everyone a subset of facts, while omitting others, not painting the entire truth. They are not lying, but at the same time manipulate opinion of a large population.
  - Heyso 4y ago
    Like lying by omission, or relaying some false news, and apologizing a day or two later (discretly when the harm is already done). It is pretty obvious our media (at least in France) serve some agenda when you look at their finances. The rich guys that detain theses medias know how to make money. Meaning it is worth keeping these medias despite what it cost them each year. And why would you keep an unprofitable business ? Unless it serves them in another manner...
    - sofixa 4y ago
      What do you mean? Le Monde, the most popular newspaper, which is billionaire owned is profitable. Le Figaro, owned by Dassault (industrial group), second best, is also profitable. TF1, most popular private TV news network, owned by Bouygues (industrial group), is also profitable. M6, second best (among the private ones), is also profitable. Le Canard enchaîné and Mediapart, two of the most hard hitting investigative medias out there, are independent. All of this is easily found public information, which conflicts with the picture you're trying to paint. Of course there are rich people pushing their agenda with media (Bolloré pushed the far-right Zemmour really hard), but it's not the norm and it's false to say that French media is kept afloat by rich people's money to push an agenda when they're all profitable.
  - ptr 4y ago
    What important piece of the puzzle are western media omitting that makes this not a war between Russia and Ukraine? What is the whole truth, according to you? Ironically, you're the one omitting right now.
    - diimdeep 4y ago
      I can only recommend doing your own research, cross language barrier, examine the situation from as many points as possible, we have all the tools to do this. I do not feel comfortable here anymore to discuss this because of downvotes.
    - enjoy-your-stay 4y ago
      I would the say the opposite is true, the western media is more than happy to discuss and (over) analyse every little detail of information that quite freely flows into our media machines from many different sources. We agonize over failures and freely discuss tactics and events, report explicitly and react to horrors occurring, sometimes so much that we get a bit desensitized over time. It could be argued that we sometimes omit too little. Unlike in Russia now where telling the truth can get you a criminal record and land you in jail.
- Heyso 4y ago
  Who's is sending weapons to Ukraine for free ? Who is putting military base around the country ? Who's putting "defensive" missile launcher around the country ? It is not just Russia VS Ukraine.
  - DarkWiiPlayer 4y ago
    > Who's is sending weapons to Ukraine for free ? Who is putting military base around the country ? Who's putting "defensive" missile launcher around the country? All of this is irrelevant. > It is not just Russia VS Ukraine. Yes. Yes it is. Russian soldiers are shooting at Ukrainian soldiers, and Ukrainian soldiers are shooting at Russian soldiers. That's it. No NATO soldiers are shooting at or being shot at by anyone. Because NATO is not a party in this war. Russia and Ukraine are.
    - SlickNixon 4y ago
      >Russian soldiers are shooting at Ukrainian soldiers, and Ukrainian soldiers are shooting at Russian soldiers. That's it. This is a gross oversimplification given that most soldiers don't do any shooting at all.
      - windock 4y ago
        If NATO was at war with Russia, it would be absolutely clear for everyone. Iran and North Korea help Russia with military supplies, and there is no question if Ukraine is at war with them. Countries tend to help their friends during war.
        SlickNixon 4y ago
        > no question if Ukraine is at war with them Of course there is a question. The whole point is that "at war" isn't a binary state, hence "who is doing the shooting" being a gross oversimplification.

yread 4y ago

Depends who you ask: Russia: NATO is at war with us. We're not at war with anyone cause it's a special military operation Everyone else: Russia and Ukraine are at war

diimdeep 4y ago
> Depends who you ask: Well, you will hear some opinion, based on some perspective. Almost always it is not whole truth, but a subset of facts. But there is so much more at play. What bothers me is how western news manipulative and no one really notice. News giving everyone a subset of facts, while omitting others, not painting the entire truth. They are not lying, but at the same time manipulate opinion of a large population.
- Heyso 4y ago
  Like lying by omission, or relaying some false news, and apologizing a day or two later (discretly when the harm is already done). It is pretty obvious our media (at least in France) serve some agenda when you look at their finances. The rich guys that detain theses medias know how to make money. Meaning it is worth keeping these medias despite what it cost them each year. And why would you keep an unprofitable business ? Unless it serves them in another manner...
  - sofixa 4y ago
    What do you mean? Le Monde, the most popular newspaper, which is billionaire owned is profitable. Le Figaro, owned by Dassault (industrial group), second best, is also profitable. TF1, most popular private TV news network, owned by Bouygues (industrial group), is also profitable. M6, second best (among the private ones), is also profitable. Le Canard enchaîné and Mediapart, two of the most hard hitting investigative medias out there, are independent. All of this is easily found public information, which conflicts with the picture you're trying to paint. Of course there are rich people pushing their agenda with media (Bolloré pushed the far-right Zemmour really hard), but it's not the norm and it's false to say that French media is kept afloat by rich people's money to push an agenda when they're all profitable.
- ptr 4y ago
  What important piece of the puzzle are western media omitting that makes this not a war between Russia and Ukraine? What is the whole truth, according to you? Ironically, you're the one omitting right now.
  - diimdeep 4y ago
    I can only recommend doing your own research, cross language barrier, examine the situation from as many points as possible, we have all the tools to do this. I do not feel comfortable here anymore to discuss this because of downvotes.
  - enjoy-your-stay 4y ago
    I would the say the opposite is true, the western media is more than happy to discuss and (over) analyse every little detail of information that quite freely flows into our media machines from many different sources. We agonize over failures and freely discuss tactics and events, report explicitly and react to horrors occurring, sometimes so much that we get a bit desensitized over time. It could be argued that we sometimes omit too little. Unlike in Russia now where telling the truth can get you a criminal record and land you in jail.
Heyso 4y ago
Who's is sending weapons to Ukraine for free ? Who is putting military base around the country ? Who's putting "defensive" missile launcher around the country ? It is not just Russia VS Ukraine.
- DarkWiiPlayer 4y ago
  > Who's is sending weapons to Ukraine for free ? Who is putting military base around the country ? Who's putting "defensive" missile launcher around the country? All of this is irrelevant. > It is not just Russia VS Ukraine. Yes. Yes it is. Russian soldiers are shooting at Ukrainian soldiers, and Ukrainian soldiers are shooting at Russian soldiers. That's it. No NATO soldiers are shooting at or being shot at by anyone. Because NATO is not a party in this war. Russia and Ukraine are.
  - SlickNixon 4y ago
    >Russian soldiers are shooting at Ukrainian soldiers, and Ukrainian soldiers are shooting at Russian soldiers. That's it. This is a gross oversimplification given that most soldiers don't do any shooting at all.
    - windock 4y ago
      If NATO was at war with Russia, it would be absolutely clear for everyone. Iran and North Korea help Russia with military supplies, and there is no question if Ukraine is at war with them. Countries tend to help their friends during war.
      - SlickNixon 4y ago
        > no question if Ukraine is at war with them Of course there is a question. The whole point is that "at war" isn't a binary state, hence "who is doing the shooting" being a gross oversimplification.