5 ms·

This is exactly why I use Linux. There is nothing subversive going on behind the scenes. My system trusts that I know what I'm doing and that's why I like it.

This is exactly why I use Linux. There is nothing subversive going on behind the scenes. My system trusts that I know what I'm doing and that's why I like it. Also on Windows, the first thing I do is disable the Windows Defender. And believe it or not, I haven't had any viruses for as long as I can remember using computers. On the other hand, half a year ago I've investigated a compromised macOS system at work where the user clicked a wrong button on some innocently looking dialog and ended up with a rogue extension in Google Chrome which was not possible to uninstall. Why didn't SIP prevent that from happening?

buildbot 4y ago
Because Chrome is not part of the MacOS operating system?
highwaylights 4y ago
> Also on Windows, the first thing I do is disable the Windows Defender. And believe it or not, I haven't had any viruses for as long as I can remember using computers. Prove it.
- depr 4y ago
  You prove Windows Defender will keep you virus free first
  - highwaylights 4y ago
    Well, you can easily find out if it's detected anything by checking it's history, as opposed to having no idea if you have any malware whatsoever - which is what you're advocating for with this stance.
    - ubercow13 4y ago
      Right, so check it first, and if it hasn't ever found anything, I guess you're good to disable it.
      - simonh 4y ago
        So if I’m a soldier in Ukraine, you’re suggesting I check my bullet proof flak jacket to see if there are any bullet or shrapnel impacts, and if not I should ditch it?
- illys 4y ago
  Why/how should he prove something that did not happen? An event, a fact can be proved... not their absence. Try for yourself: prove your have not done [X] in the last 10 years.
  - highwaylights 4y ago
    You're mistaken, this situation doesn't require you to disprove a negative. The parent is claiming to have proven a negative. They've claimed to have never gotten a virus. They have no way of knowing if this happened, as a virus isn't going to demonstrate it's presence.
    - illys 4y ago
      So I guess the right question is "Are you sure?", not "Prove it".
      - highwaylights 4y ago
        I was going to write "How would you know?" and in retrospect I should have.
- kregger 4y ago
  I have a Windows 10 (windows 7 -> 10 upgrade) machine with 10+ years operation, Windows Defender has never caught or warned me about anything. So either: 1. I never downloaded malware 2. Windows Defender is useless and doesn't catch anything.
  - blacksmith_tb 4y ago
    Also possible it was doing its job, but was useless at notifying you that it had done anything...
sbuk 4y ago
> On the other hand, half a year ago I've investigated a compromised macOS system at work where the user clicked a wrong button on some innocently looking dialog and ended up with a rogue extension in Google Chrome which was not possible to uninstall. Why didn't SIP prevent that from happening? Because a Chrome extension is not part of the system. The clue is in the name, System Integrity Protection. Were Chrome extensions something that interacted withe kernel, or other system functions, you'd have a point. Arguably XProtect could've kicked in, but now would expect the software running the extension to have reasonable protection agains that sort of thing.

buildbot 4y ago

Because Chrome is not part of the MacOS operating system?

highwaylights 4y ago

> Also on Windows, the first thing I do is disable the Windows Defender. And believe it or not, I haven't had any viruses for as long as I can remember using computers. Prove it.

depr 4y ago
You prove Windows Defender will keep you virus free first
- highwaylights 4y ago
  Well, you can easily find out if it's detected anything by checking it's history, as opposed to having no idea if you have any malware whatsoever - which is what you're advocating for with this stance.
  - ubercow13 4y ago
    Right, so check it first, and if it hasn't ever found anything, I guess you're good to disable it.
    - simonh 4y ago
      So if I’m a soldier in Ukraine, you’re suggesting I check my bullet proof flak jacket to see if there are any bullet or shrapnel impacts, and if not I should ditch it?
illys 4y ago
Why/how should he prove something that did not happen? An event, a fact can be proved... not their absence. Try for yourself: prove your have not done [X] in the last 10 years.
- highwaylights 4y ago
  You're mistaken, this situation doesn't require you to disprove a negative. The parent is claiming to have proven a negative. They've claimed to have never gotten a virus. They have no way of knowing if this happened, as a virus isn't going to demonstrate it's presence.
  - illys 4y ago
    So I guess the right question is "Are you sure?", not "Prove it".
    - highwaylights 4y ago
      I was going to write "How would you know?" and in retrospect I should have.
kregger 4y ago
I have a Windows 10 (windows 7 -> 10 upgrade) machine with 10+ years operation, Windows Defender has never caught or warned me about anything. So either: 1. I never downloaded malware 2. Windows Defender is useless and doesn't catch anything.
- blacksmith_tb 4y ago
  Also possible it was doing its job, but was useless at notifying you that it had done anything...

sbuk 4y ago

> On the other hand, half a year ago I've investigated a compromised macOS system at work where the user clicked a wrong button on some innocently looking dialog and ended up with a rogue extension in Google Chrome which was not possible to uninstall. Why didn't SIP prevent that from happening? Because a Chrome extension is not part of the system. The clue is in the name, System Integrity Protection. Were Chrome extensions something that interacted withe kernel, or other system functions, you'd have a point. Arguably XProtect could've kicked in, but now would expect the software running the extension to have reasonable protection agains that sort of thing.