4 ms·

Those are not our people (non christian, non white). Ukrainians are. There is absolutely a difference that could be called racism, or more keenly it’s the fact

Those are not our people (non christian, non white). Ukrainians are. There is absolutely a difference that could be called racism, or more keenly it’s the fact that people are moved more by what they consider more close and similar to themselves. Just to be clear, I think that’s wrong, but I wouldn’t compare those two examples with Ukraine.

Mikeb85 4y ago
Armenians are both white and Christian. They just happen to stuck in a hard place (NATO needs Turkey and Turkey is intent on finishing their centuries-long genocide of Armenians through their proxy Azerbaijan).
- dvfjsdhgfv 4y ago
  And it would be interesting to see how it plays out as Russia refused to help Armenia - but it looks like the USA is siding with Armenia against Azerbaijan (and I don't believe it is just to make Erdogan angry).
  - mamonster 4y ago
    IMO they are siding with Armenia at the moment only because the latest conflict actually took place on the border between the 2 countries. Once Azerbaijan restarts in NK/Artsakh proper, USA will get on the sideline.
jack_pp 4y ago
I'm sorry but I share a border with Ukraine and unless you're close to the border to maybe interact with them more I'm not sure many in my own country would feel kinship with them. We're more concerned that the war is on our doorstep. I can assure you this is how most of my country feels. There are some that are virtue signaling and are very active in their support for Ukraine on social media but I've met enough people from random places to say that we don't in fact consider them our people. My only interaction with Ukrainians has been through video games and I've not seen any difference in behavior from Russians, mainly they've been selfish, refusing to speak English and just a pain to cooperate with
- emptysongglass 4y ago
  I've had quite the opposite experience working with Ukrainians as peers at my last company: I find them much like other Europeans. I very much care about their welfare and have given much of my own money to support them. I have offered my own apartment for shelter. If you don't want to care about them that's fine but please do not project your lack of empathy to others as to what this really is about.
  - llampx 4y ago
    Just an observation: both of your experiences can be true, as you have personal experience with Ukrainians in real life and GP has experience online via video games.
    - emptysongglass 4y ago
      Yes, but splitting the difference should never be to become numb or indifferent to the tragedy happening daily to these people. This person had some bad experiences online gaming with people they somehow identified as Ukrainians from Ukraine and that suggests what exactly? That the rest of us are virtue signaling because of their bad experience?
      - jack_pp 4y ago
        The comment I replied to implied Ukrainians are "our" people. I don't think most of Europe thought of them like that before the west pushed their narrative and brought them to the attention while vilifying Russians. You have more sympathy for them compared to the average EU citizen that has never interacted with them because.. well you interacted with them and you had a positive experience. A lot of people make friends in the workplace and that affected you directly which I understand and I'm not saying you specifically are virtue signaling. But how many people are in your position and aren't just reacting to what the media is telling them? I just don't see why I personally would have more sympathy for Ukrainians than the other countless people who are at war all over the world and have been at war constantly for decades. I understand caring more about this war because it's near the west and there's a chance it triggers WW3 but I believe most people, especially US citizens only show sympathy because of their party affiliation or to virtue signal or because if you don't you'll get ostracized etc.
Radim 4y ago
> Those are not our people (non christian, non white). Did you mean to end in "/s" for sarcasm? Armenia was the very first country in the world to adopt Christianity, and is officially Christian to this day. As for "non white"… do you know where the term "Caucasian" comes from? You may not consider Armenians "our people", that's your call. But you don't get to hide behind Armenia's religion or ethnicity.
- colordrops 4y ago
  The fact that racist comments like the grandparent are getting a pass here on HN is sickening. "They are not the same because they aren't white and christian". My comment that yemeni and ukrainian lives are of equal value got downvoted. I even here these sorts of comments from close friends. "We should care about Ukraine because they are 'like us'". WTF do you mean "like us"? I have more relatives near Yemen than Ukraine. People bleed and suffer everywhere.
  - camillomiller 4y ago
    Did you even try to read my comment? I’m saying that is the sentiment and the reason why there’s too different reactions. OF COURSE the value of life is equal, but in Europe we see Yemen and we see a far away land that is culturally far. We see Ukraine and we see our neighbors and history. No justification for the different feelings, just a very simple explanation. Maybe you get downvoted because you’re confrontational and can’t seem to properly understand what you read?
    - colordrops 4y ago
      You said they are not comparable. What does that mean? Skin color and religion are superficial differences when it comes to death and suffering.
somedude895 4y ago
This is exactly right. I saw a picture of newly built houses with dead bodies strewn in front of them (Can't find the picture anymore, been looking for a while now). The houses and scenery looked like it could be my country. No pictures of war in the past ever hit me like that.
colordrops 4y ago
To assume that everyone chooses skin color and religion as the core identifiers for similarity and value is awfully presumptuous. Those should absolutely not be the deciding factor as to whether lives matter. Yemeni and Ukrainian lives are of equal value, full stop.
jhugo 4y ago
Neither Yemen nor Armenia have much strategic importance for NATO, Ukraine does. That's the difference. The support for Ukraine isn't being driven from the bottom up, it's being driven from the top down. And Armenia is white and Christian, btw.
someweirdperson 4y ago
The difference is that their defence works. When the war started, everyone assumed Russia would take over quickly, and things would go back to normal (for western countries, not Ukraine). But no, it did not end quickly, ooops. Now they need help, weapons start to be delivered. Still no-one really believing that they would repel Russia, so just some simple defensive items to show support. 200 days forward, they are actively pushing back, and this is used as a reason to discuss delivery of even more heavy weapons (now MBTs). It's as if they need to prove that they are worth to be supported, instead of deploying what is needed as early as possible.
- dvfjsdhgfv 4y ago
  > It's as if they need to prove that they are worth to be supported, instead of deploying what is needed as early as possible. In a way, yes - if Russians managed to take over in the first days, all this modern weapons would be in their hands.

Mikeb85 4y ago

Armenians are both white and Christian. They just happen to stuck in a hard place (NATO needs Turkey and Turkey is intent on finishing their centuries-long genocide of Armenians through their proxy Azerbaijan).

dvfjsdhgfv 4y ago
And it would be interesting to see how it plays out as Russia refused to help Armenia - but it looks like the USA is siding with Armenia against Azerbaijan (and I don't believe it is just to make Erdogan angry).
- mamonster 4y ago
  IMO they are siding with Armenia at the moment only because the latest conflict actually took place on the border between the 2 countries. Once Azerbaijan restarts in NK/Artsakh proper, USA will get on the sideline.

jack_pp 4y ago

I'm sorry but I share a border with Ukraine and unless you're close to the border to maybe interact with them more I'm not sure many in my own country would feel kinship with them. We're more concerned that the war is on our doorstep. I can assure you this is how most of my country feels. There are some that are virtue signaling and are very active in their support for Ukraine on social media but I've met enough people from random places to say that we don't in fact consider them our people. My only interaction with Ukrainians has been through video games and I've not seen any difference in behavior from Russians, mainly they've been selfish, refusing to speak English and just a pain to cooperate with

emptysongglass 4y ago
I've had quite the opposite experience working with Ukrainians as peers at my last company: I find them much like other Europeans. I very much care about their welfare and have given much of my own money to support them. I have offered my own apartment for shelter. If you don't want to care about them that's fine but please do not project your lack of empathy to others as to what this really is about.
- llampx 4y ago
  Just an observation: both of your experiences can be true, as you have personal experience with Ukrainians in real life and GP has experience online via video games.
  - emptysongglass 4y ago
    Yes, but splitting the difference should never be to become numb or indifferent to the tragedy happening daily to these people. This person had some bad experiences online gaming with people they somehow identified as Ukrainians from Ukraine and that suggests what exactly? That the rest of us are virtue signaling because of their bad experience?
    - jack_pp 4y ago
      The comment I replied to implied Ukrainians are "our" people. I don't think most of Europe thought of them like that before the west pushed their narrative and brought them to the attention while vilifying Russians. You have more sympathy for them compared to the average EU citizen that has never interacted with them because.. well you interacted with them and you had a positive experience. A lot of people make friends in the workplace and that affected you directly which I understand and I'm not saying you specifically are virtue signaling. But how many people are in your position and aren't just reacting to what the media is telling them? I just don't see why I personally would have more sympathy for Ukrainians than the other countless people who are at war all over the world and have been at war constantly for decades. I understand caring more about this war because it's near the west and there's a chance it triggers WW3 but I believe most people, especially US citizens only show sympathy because of their party affiliation or to virtue signal or because if you don't you'll get ostracized etc.

Radim 4y ago

> Those are not our people (non christian, non white). Did you mean to end in "/s" for sarcasm? Armenia was the very first country in the world to adopt Christianity, and is officially Christian to this day. As for "non white"… do you know where the term "Caucasian" comes from? You may not consider Armenians "our people", that's your call. But you don't get to hide behind Armenia's religion or ethnicity.

colordrops 4y ago
The fact that racist comments like the grandparent are getting a pass here on HN is sickening. "They are not the same because they aren't white and christian". My comment that yemeni and ukrainian lives are of equal value got downvoted. I even here these sorts of comments from close friends. "We should care about Ukraine because they are 'like us'". WTF do you mean "like us"? I have more relatives near Yemen than Ukraine. People bleed and suffer everywhere.
- camillomiller 4y ago
  Did you even try to read my comment? I’m saying that is the sentiment and the reason why there’s too different reactions. OF COURSE the value of life is equal, but in Europe we see Yemen and we see a far away land that is culturally far. We see Ukraine and we see our neighbors and history. No justification for the different feelings, just a very simple explanation. Maybe you get downvoted because you’re confrontational and can’t seem to properly understand what you read?
  - colordrops 4y ago
    You said they are not comparable. What does that mean? Skin color and religion are superficial differences when it comes to death and suffering.

somedude895 4y ago

This is exactly right. I saw a picture of newly built houses with dead bodies strewn in front of them (Can't find the picture anymore, been looking for a while now). The houses and scenery looked like it could be my country. No pictures of war in the past ever hit me like that.

colordrops 4y ago

To assume that everyone chooses skin color and religion as the core identifiers for similarity and value is awfully presumptuous. Those should absolutely not be the deciding factor as to whether lives matter. Yemeni and Ukrainian lives are of equal value, full stop.

jhugo 4y ago

Neither Yemen nor Armenia have much strategic importance for NATO, Ukraine does. That's the difference. The support for Ukraine isn't being driven from the bottom up, it's being driven from the top down. And Armenia is white and Christian, btw.

someweirdperson 4y ago

The difference is that their defence works. When the war started, everyone assumed Russia would take over quickly, and things would go back to normal (for western countries, not Ukraine). But no, it did not end quickly, ooops. Now they need help, weapons start to be delivered. Still no-one really believing that they would repel Russia, so just some simple defensive items to show support. 200 days forward, they are actively pushing back, and this is used as a reason to discuss delivery of even more heavy weapons (now MBTs). It's as if they need to prove that they are worth to be supported, instead of deploying what is needed as early as possible.

dvfjsdhgfv 4y ago
> It's as if they need to prove that they are worth to be supported, instead of deploying what is needed as early as possible. In a way, yes - if Russians managed to take over in the first days, all this modern weapons would be in their hands.