8 ms·

What a nightmare. My previous two jobs had me use macOS, specifically Macbook Pros, and it was a nightmare. Slow, difficult to even use the computer due to all

by bmitc 4y ago

What a nightmare. My previous two jobs had me use macOS, specifically Macbook Pros, and it was a nightmare. Slow, difficult to even use the computer due to all sorts of hidden behaviors and blocks, and a terrible mess when it came to my external monitor, webcam, keyboard, and mouse (from major brands in Dell and Logitech). I got to choose for my new job and chose Windows, and it's night and day in terms of productivity.

wodenokoto 4y ago
yeah yeah yeah. My job forced me to use Windows, and it is terrible for my productivity and what not. One day, one of the screens stopped working when in use with dual display another day the fingerprint reader stopped working for log-ins, but still works for the first half of setting up a new fingerprint. I can't even charge my headphones without special drivers! Look. We all have our pet peeves with OSs, but they are not relevant to TFA
dereg 4y ago
For all intents and purposes, a M-Series MacBook running Parallels is the best Windows laptop you can buy. I say this as a Windows productivity maximalist. It’s 2022 and Windows touchpads and touchpad drivers don’t hold a candle to my 2011 MacBook.
- political12345 4y ago
  - fredsted 4y ago
    Using a mouse for an extended period makes my hand hurt
  - yurishimo 4y ago
    I’m not a designer. I use a trackpad full time, even on desktop (on macOS). For me, it’s a couple of things. First, gestures are awesome and not easily reproducible with a mouse. My keyboard is full of shortcuts for other things, I don’t want to take up hotkeys for something my trackpad can do. Second, it’s consistent across all my computing devices. My laptop experience is identical to the desktop experience and I don’t have to carry a mouse in my backpack for my laptop. Finally, my hands are closer, and on the same plane, as my keyboard. With a mouse, my hand has to move from a small claw shape back to flat for typing. With a trackpad, my hand stays flatter. Bonus, I need less space for computing. I know you can adjust the sensitivity for mice, and even for trackpads, but in practice, for me personally, I tend to need way more space when using a mouse. I still play computer games so it’s not like I don’t own one, but for productivity, I’ll use a trackpad when possible.
  - denkmoon 4y ago
    >very interested to hear a convincing argument for having a trackpad as none exists in my universe Good for you, I hope your egocentrism continues to serve you well. You really can't think of a reason why someone might prefer using an alternative input method?
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - adamwk 4y ago
    Wouldn’t precision matter more to a graphic designer than a developer?
- Panzer04 4y ago
  I must admit, I don't really run into any of these problems that people call out on laptops I use. What, specifically, is the problem with touchpads on windows?
  - Gigachad 4y ago
    You can’t specifically point things out. It’s just a general “doesn’t feel right”. Some specific issues though I have seen is general lack of responsiveness or missing the first bit of movement and no gestures or gestures that just don’t work as well.
  - dereg 4y ago
    A few things off the top of my head: - Mac touchpads have near-perfect wrist detection so you almost never get an errant input. - There is virtually no input lag. It’s especially crucial when scrolling long pages. On a Mac, you can flick the touchpad and the page will scroll all the way down. - Furthermore, they perfectly recognize up to 10 fingers. There’s a lot of great software that allows you to set shortcuts to different mouse gestures like 3-,4-, 5-finger swipes, tip-taps, and more. - There’s a really smooth acceleration curve that allows you to be extremely precise with the mouse while also allowing it to span great distances when needed. Like the other poster said, there are so many subtle differences that amount to a gargantuan delta between the two experiences.
    - prmoustache 4y ago
      I don't know what is a "wrist detection". Nobody put his wrist on a touchpad anyway, there is simply no practicable way to do that when operating a laptop, even when trying to! I don't perceive any lag on both my thinkpad and my pro admitedly crappy Dell laptop on Linux when scrolling anything and I don't recall having felt a significant difference with windows when it was last fired up or on Mac laptops I tried in the past. Most of the difference usually came from a difference in the speed and acceleration settings but these are configurables. Can't speak about gestures because that is something most people don't use.
      - 4y ago
- bmitc 4y ago
  I’d say that a Windows 11 computer running WSL2 is the best computer you can buy. Benefits of a high-level OS with seamless integration with real Linux. I only ever miss two apps from macOS: Preview and LaTeXiT.
savolai 4y ago
I respect your experience if indeed this is it. And of course it has to do with what you're used to. For me the experience has been the opposite. I could never get used to things not working fluidly enough. When I finally decided to embrace the level of integration apple devices provide, the world of pain that windows was to work with eased up a lot. Windows seemed a patchwork of things cobbled together with no real coordination, parts that don't work very well together, and messy visual/interaction design where the users' point of view hasn't been a priority.
- bmitc 4y ago
  I used a MacBook all through undergrad, grad school, and a few years into industry. I eventually moved to Windows after being tired of dealing with Apple-isms. The simple fact though is that macOS and/or the MacBook Pros I used for work simply could not handle my Dell monitor and Logitech peripherals, and that was with dedicated GPUs. And Apple often intentionally makes this so. For example, macOS does not support adjusting the brightness or volume on an external monitor unless it is an Apple monitor or one of two LG monitors they sell in the Apple Store, neither through the keyboard or directly in the OS. This is because Apple refuses to implement a protocol to support this. Neither MacBook Pro could drive my monitor without the clamshell closed. My Lenovo Thinkpad doesn’t even have a discrete GPU and drives my monitor fine, much better than the $2,000+ MacBook Pros I had. There are concrete things that just do not work on macOS or, if they do work, not work well. Lastly, macOS is a compromise in two wrong directions. One is that it’s not Linux, so the Unix experience is compromised and dealing with Homebrew is a pain. I constantly had trouble with asdf and other Linux tools on macOS that I never have issue with in WSL on Windows. It seems any tool on macOS needs several workarounds. That doesn’t exist on Windows for development tools because I directly use Linux through WSL. Then I get to use Windows for everything else, which has much more stable driver support. The other direction is macOS, which keeps moving towards a locked down, mobile-like experience.
  - assttoasstmgr 4y ago
    Well for one, Linux isn't Unix. You'd know this if you ever lived through the treachery that was Proprietary Unix e.g. Solaris, HP-UX, IRIX. The maladies of the "Unix Experience" as you termed it is why people migrated to Linux. So you can consider macOS as carrying on the tradition that was the proprietary Unix shitfest.
f1shy 4y ago
I get 2 computer in my work, one windows, one linux. I do not bother to open the windows one, unless I need to use some obscure feature of offices programs. The development work, runs completely in linux. Privately I have mac. After 20 years of saying "mac is BAD (TM)". I buy a Microsoft surface, because I said "is not that the SW is bad, the problem is the HW is not from the same company"... 6 month later, I ditched the surface, bought an iPad, one month later iPhone, 3 month later a macbook pro. No way I would privately go back to windows. In the work, the people who got the Macbook pros were not happy, but mainly because of bad integration with the Microsoft ecosystems around.
5350-uiop-1130 4y ago
i had the same issue. got the new macbook m1 at work, and could not use any my of usb keyboard or mice. i asked for an adaptor and it comes with one usb port only :( also this laptop keeps giving me static shocks. i never had issues with pre 2015 era macbooks which i think were pretty good.
- bmitc 4y ago
  The static shocks have been an issue for over a decade. My 2011 MacBook Pro had the same issues, and I recall at the time discovering several reports of that and grounding issues on the forums. It’s a common theme in Apple’s history. Another is Bluetooth problems. I don’t think I have ever had a MacBook that didn’t have issues with streaming audio over Bluetooth.
  - zimpenfish 4y ago
    > I don’t think I have ever had a MacBook that didn’t have issues with streaming audio over Bluetooth. Conversely, to supply one Gladwell's worth of anecdata, I've never had a MacBook (in 10+ years) that has had any issues with streaming audio over Bluetooth (several TaoTronics dongles, standalone speakers, PLT headphones, Aftershokz headphones, etc.)

by bmitc 4y ago

wodenokoto 4y ago

yeah yeah yeah. My job forced me to use Windows, and it is terrible for my productivity and what not. One day, one of the screens stopped working when in use with dual display another day the fingerprint reader stopped working for log-ins, but still works for the first half of setting up a new fingerprint. I can't even charge my headphones without special drivers! Look. We all have our pet peeves with OSs, but they are not relevant to TFA

dereg 4y ago

For all intents and purposes, a M-Series MacBook running Parallels is the best Windows laptop you can buy. I say this as a Windows productivity maximalist. It’s 2022 and Windows touchpads and touchpad drivers don’t hold a candle to my 2011 MacBook.

political12345 4y ago
- fredsted 4y ago
  Using a mouse for an extended period makes my hand hurt
- yurishimo 4y ago
  I’m not a designer. I use a trackpad full time, even on desktop (on macOS). For me, it’s a couple of things. First, gestures are awesome and not easily reproducible with a mouse. My keyboard is full of shortcuts for other things, I don’t want to take up hotkeys for something my trackpad can do. Second, it’s consistent across all my computing devices. My laptop experience is identical to the desktop experience and I don’t have to carry a mouse in my backpack for my laptop. Finally, my hands are closer, and on the same plane, as my keyboard. With a mouse, my hand has to move from a small claw shape back to flat for typing. With a trackpad, my hand stays flatter. Bonus, I need less space for computing. I know you can adjust the sensitivity for mice, and even for trackpads, but in practice, for me personally, I tend to need way more space when using a mouse. I still play computer games so it’s not like I don’t own one, but for productivity, I’ll use a trackpad when possible.
- denkmoon 4y ago
  >very interested to hear a convincing argument for having a trackpad as none exists in my universe Good for you, I hope your egocentrism continues to serve you well. You really can't think of a reason why someone might prefer using an alternative input method?
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- adamwk 4y ago
  Wouldn’t precision matter more to a graphic designer than a developer?
Panzer04 4y ago
I must admit, I don't really run into any of these problems that people call out on laptops I use. What, specifically, is the problem with touchpads on windows?
- Gigachad 4y ago
  You can’t specifically point things out. It’s just a general “doesn’t feel right”. Some specific issues though I have seen is general lack of responsiveness or missing the first bit of movement and no gestures or gestures that just don’t work as well.
- dereg 4y ago
  A few things off the top of my head: - Mac touchpads have near-perfect wrist detection so you almost never get an errant input. - There is virtually no input lag. It’s especially crucial when scrolling long pages. On a Mac, you can flick the touchpad and the page will scroll all the way down. - Furthermore, they perfectly recognize up to 10 fingers. There’s a lot of great software that allows you to set shortcuts to different mouse gestures like 3-,4-, 5-finger swipes, tip-taps, and more. - There’s a really smooth acceleration curve that allows you to be extremely precise with the mouse while also allowing it to span great distances when needed. Like the other poster said, there are so many subtle differences that amount to a gargantuan delta between the two experiences.
  - prmoustache 4y ago
    I don't know what is a "wrist detection". Nobody put his wrist on a touchpad anyway, there is simply no practicable way to do that when operating a laptop, even when trying to! I don't perceive any lag on both my thinkpad and my pro admitedly crappy Dell laptop on Linux when scrolling anything and I don't recall having felt a significant difference with windows when it was last fired up or on Mac laptops I tried in the past. Most of the difference usually came from a difference in the speed and acceleration settings but these are configurables. Can't speak about gestures because that is something most people don't use.
    - 4y ago
bmitc 4y ago
I’d say that a Windows 11 computer running WSL2 is the best computer you can buy. Benefits of a high-level OS with seamless integration with real Linux. I only ever miss two apps from macOS: Preview and LaTeXiT.

savolai 4y ago

I respect your experience if indeed this is it. And of course it has to do with what you're used to. For me the experience has been the opposite. I could never get used to things not working fluidly enough. When I finally decided to embrace the level of integration apple devices provide, the world of pain that windows was to work with eased up a lot. Windows seemed a patchwork of things cobbled together with no real coordination, parts that don't work very well together, and messy visual/interaction design where the users' point of view hasn't been a priority.

bmitc 4y ago
I used a MacBook all through undergrad, grad school, and a few years into industry. I eventually moved to Windows after being tired of dealing with Apple-isms. The simple fact though is that macOS and/or the MacBook Pros I used for work simply could not handle my Dell monitor and Logitech peripherals, and that was with dedicated GPUs. And Apple often intentionally makes this so. For example, macOS does not support adjusting the brightness or volume on an external monitor unless it is an Apple monitor or one of two LG monitors they sell in the Apple Store, neither through the keyboard or directly in the OS. This is because Apple refuses to implement a protocol to support this. Neither MacBook Pro could drive my monitor without the clamshell closed. My Lenovo Thinkpad doesn’t even have a discrete GPU and drives my monitor fine, much better than the $2,000+ MacBook Pros I had. There are concrete things that just do not work on macOS or, if they do work, not work well. Lastly, macOS is a compromise in two wrong directions. One is that it’s not Linux, so the Unix experience is compromised and dealing with Homebrew is a pain. I constantly had trouble with asdf and other Linux tools on macOS that I never have issue with in WSL on Windows. It seems any tool on macOS needs several workarounds. That doesn’t exist on Windows for development tools because I directly use Linux through WSL. Then I get to use Windows for everything else, which has much more stable driver support. The other direction is macOS, which keeps moving towards a locked down, mobile-like experience.
- assttoasstmgr 4y ago
  Well for one, Linux isn't Unix. You'd know this if you ever lived through the treachery that was Proprietary Unix e.g. Solaris, HP-UX, IRIX. The maladies of the "Unix Experience" as you termed it is why people migrated to Linux. So you can consider macOS as carrying on the tradition that was the proprietary Unix shitfest.

f1shy 4y ago

I get 2 computer in my work, one windows, one linux. I do not bother to open the windows one, unless I need to use some obscure feature of offices programs. The development work, runs completely in linux. Privately I have mac. After 20 years of saying "mac is BAD (TM)". I buy a Microsoft surface, because I said "is not that the SW is bad, the problem is the HW is not from the same company"... 6 month later, I ditched the surface, bought an iPad, one month later iPhone, 3 month later a macbook pro. No way I would privately go back to windows. In the work, the people who got the Macbook pros were not happy, but mainly because of bad integration with the Microsoft ecosystems around.

5350-uiop-1130 4y ago

i had the same issue. got the new macbook m1 at work, and could not use any my of usb keyboard or mice. i asked for an adaptor and it comes with one usb port only :( also this laptop keeps giving me static shocks. i never had issues with pre 2015 era macbooks which i think were pretty good.

bmitc 4y ago
The static shocks have been an issue for over a decade. My 2011 MacBook Pro had the same issues, and I recall at the time discovering several reports of that and grounding issues on the forums. It’s a common theme in Apple’s history. Another is Bluetooth problems. I don’t think I have ever had a MacBook that didn’t have issues with streaming audio over Bluetooth.
- zimpenfish 4y ago
  > I don’t think I have ever had a MacBook that didn’t have issues with streaming audio over Bluetooth. Conversely, to supply one Gladwell's worth of anecdata, I've never had a MacBook (in 10+ years) that has had any issues with streaming audio over Bluetooth (several TaoTronics dongles, standalone speakers, PLT headphones, Aftershokz headphones, etc.)