3 ms·

> The thermal mass of the air is tiny > Chest freezers have better [...] door seals Hmm. Is it outlandish to think that a modern standing freezer with workin

> The thermal mass of the air is tiny > Chest freezers have better [...] door seals Hmm. Is it outlandish to think that a modern standing freezer with working seals will let less air out the seals than is exchanged by opening the door even a couple of times a week? Modern standing freezers are starting to get drawers with sides in them now, presumably for reducing air loss while it's open. And seals are practically air-tight (if you've lived in a place with high humidity, even tiny gaps or holes in the seal causes noticeable condensation and water build up. So I'm skeptical about the seal claim. Better insulation may be true.

a1369209993 4y ago
> a modern standing freezer with working seals will let less air out the seals than is exchanged by opening the door I think the idea is that the seals can conduct heat, and do so much better than whatever abitrarily-sophisticated thermal isolation is in the walls of the freezer, not that the airflow through the seals is carrying any significant amount of heat.
- throwawaylinux 4y ago
  The chest freezers I've seen have very similar seals to standing freezers, are you saying they're significantly better? In ether case modern doors build out an insulating section around the seal, and the seal itself creates a second seal against that so it's air gapped inside the freezer as well. The seal itself of course is a hollow tube which is somewhat of an air gap with the outside too. They're pretty good, I would be surprised for their small surface area if they caused a huge conductive loss.
  - a1369209993 4y ago
    > are you saying they're significantly better? closewith (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32890571 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32890571) is saying that: > Chest freezers have better insulation and door seals I'm not claiming anything either way, just pointing out that the seals are for sealing heat, not (primarily) air.
  - closewith 4y ago
    Chest freezers do have much thicker insulation on all walls (as they aren't constrained by the standard widths (24 to 40 in in the US, I think? 60-90 cm in the EU). Chest freezer seals are far better than upright freezer seals because: * The length of the seal is smaller compared to volume, * The height of the seal is not constrained by the closing magnets (as mechanical latches are not legal on consumer freezers), * The temperature differential at the top of the freezer is smallest. The specific heat capacity of air at constant pressure is ~1 kJ/kg K and 1 m^3 air has a mass of ~1.2 kg, so 1 kJ/kg K * 1.2 kg = 1.1 kJ/K. Even a freezer that exchanges 2 m^3 of air for outside air at say a 70K differential (the difference between -40C and a 30C room) for each opening only has to remove 1.1kJ/K * 2 * 70K = 154kJ, or 0.05 kWh, which is the standard unit of electricity. An unit of residential electricity in the most expensive US State (Hawaii) is 41.2c / kWh, so opening our enormous freezer in the worst possible conditions and completely exchanging the air using the most expensive electricity costs us 2¢. It's a complete non-factor. Source for prices: https://www.energybot.com/electricity-rates-by-state.html https://www.energybot.com/electricity-rates-by-state.html
    - throwawaylinux 4y ago
      What's the energy difference in the seals then?

a1369209993 4y ago

> a modern standing freezer with working seals will let less air out the seals than is exchanged by opening the door I think the idea is that the seals can conduct heat, and do so much better than whatever abitrarily-sophisticated thermal isolation is in the walls of the freezer, not that the airflow through the seals is carrying any significant amount of heat.

throwawaylinux 4y ago
The chest freezers I've seen have very similar seals to standing freezers, are you saying they're significantly better? In ether case modern doors build out an insulating section around the seal, and the seal itself creates a second seal against that so it's air gapped inside the freezer as well. The seal itself of course is a hollow tube which is somewhat of an air gap with the outside too. They're pretty good, I would be surprised for their small surface area if they caused a huge conductive loss.
- a1369209993 4y ago
  > are you saying they're significantly better? closewith (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32890571 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32890571) is saying that: > Chest freezers have better insulation and door seals I'm not claiming anything either way, just pointing out that the seals are for sealing heat, not (primarily) air.
- closewith 4y ago
  Chest freezers do have much thicker insulation on all walls (as they aren't constrained by the standard widths (24 to 40 in in the US, I think? 60-90 cm in the EU). Chest freezer seals are far better than upright freezer seals because: * The length of the seal is smaller compared to volume, * The height of the seal is not constrained by the closing magnets (as mechanical latches are not legal on consumer freezers), * The temperature differential at the top of the freezer is smallest. The specific heat capacity of air at constant pressure is ~1 kJ/kg K and 1 m^3 air has a mass of ~1.2 kg, so 1 kJ/kg K * 1.2 kg = 1.1 kJ/K. Even a freezer that exchanges 2 m^3 of air for outside air at say a 70K differential (the difference between -40C and a 30C room) for each opening only has to remove 1.1kJ/K * 2 * 70K = 154kJ, or 0.05 kWh, which is the standard unit of electricity. An unit of residential electricity in the most expensive US State (Hawaii) is 41.2c / kWh, so opening our enormous freezer in the worst possible conditions and completely exchanging the air using the most expensive electricity costs us 2¢. It's a complete non-factor. Source for prices: https://www.energybot.com/electricity-rates-by-state.html https://www.energybot.com/electricity-rates-by-state.html
  - throwawaylinux 4y ago
    What's the energy difference in the seals then?