4 ms·

I wouldn't call it "corruption" primarily, but BART is very much run to profit the union and its members. The union in turn gets it power by being able to para

I wouldn't call it "corruption" primarily, but BART is very much run to profit the union and its members. The union in turn gets it power by being able to paralyze the entire Bay Area with a strike. Last actual strike was in 2013: https://www.cnbc.com/2013/10/18/bart-strike-throws-sf-commute-into-chaos.html https://www.cnbc.com/2013/10/18/bart-strike-throws-sf-commut... Without this blackmail power over the region, BART'a costs would be considerably lower. Assuming 1/3 lower, we'd get 50% more BART for our money, and I think that would be much better than keeping a few thousand union members in nice lifestyles.

einpoklum 4y ago
Oh yeah, the problem with BART is employee wages, look at all those millionaire stall clerks and attendants, they're what's holding back mass transit in the bay area - unlike in Europe, where public transit works so much better because there are no unions and no strikes anywhere... </sarcasm>
- BurningFrog 4y ago
  American unions are quite different from European unions.
  - pmyteh 4y ago
    More militant than Germany, way less militant than France. "Europe" isn't close to a monoculture for trades unions. Even the UK does public transport better than the US, and our union/management relations are very similar to yours.
    - BurningFrog 4y ago
      In the US, unions have been outcompeted from almost all the private sector. They mostly remain in public sector monopolies, where they in some ways are stronger than politicians and management. I don't know of anywhere in Europe that's similar. It has little to do with "militancy" levels.
      - pmyteh 4y ago
        Yeah, the same in the UK (though I'd quibble about 'outcompete', and 'stronger than' is quite contingent in both countries in my view). Our public transport system still works way better than in the US. And I say that as someone who actually likes Amtrak.
  - mrguyorama 4y ago
    That's a hilariously bold claim with zero evidence.
- mgraczyk 4y ago
  I think it's not as crazy as it sounds. You should visit SF and ride BART. You'll likely find the experience horrifying as a direct result of the behavior of these highly paid employees. The badness of the BART experience is a major cause of underinvestment. The public simply does not want more of that.
hnbad 4y ago
So you're saying BART employees are providing a vital job serving critical infrastructure? Sounds like the kind of worker you'd want to make sure gets decent pay and working conditions then. "Without leverage workers wouldn't be able to negotiate better salaries" is hardly a novel idea. The top 10% of people in software development (hint: if you're on HN, you're probably in that 10%) can usually rely on market demand as leverage for the time being. For everyone else the best chance at gaining leverage is collective bargaining. Seems like it's working quite well for BART employees. > our money What percentage of your income goes to BART? What percentage of your income goes to militarizing the police and to the prison industrial complex? What percentage of your income goes to the military industrial complex? What percentage of your income goes towards rent? What percentage of your total compensation goes towards health insurance? What percentage of your delivered value goes towards your employer? If you're upset about not getting your worth it feels like there are a lot bigger drains siphoning off that surplus value than BART. Seems odd to get so upset about BART salaries when their work seems to be vital enough that refusing to work can "paralyze the entire Bay Area".
- BurningFrog 4y ago
  - hnbad 4y ago
    You don't seem to be interested in providing arguments to give weight to your opinion that BART employees are overpaid, so your assessment reeks of projection. I don't even live in the US, let alone the Bay Area.

einpoklum 4y ago

Oh yeah, the problem with BART is employee wages, look at all those millionaire stall clerks and attendants, they're what's holding back mass transit in the bay area - unlike in Europe, where public transit works so much better because there are no unions and no strikes anywhere... </sarcasm>

BurningFrog 4y ago
American unions are quite different from European unions.
- pmyteh 4y ago
  More militant than Germany, way less militant than France. "Europe" isn't close to a monoculture for trades unions. Even the UK does public transport better than the US, and our union/management relations are very similar to yours.
  - BurningFrog 4y ago
    In the US, unions have been outcompeted from almost all the private sector. They mostly remain in public sector monopolies, where they in some ways are stronger than politicians and management. I don't know of anywhere in Europe that's similar. It has little to do with "militancy" levels.
    - pmyteh 4y ago
      Yeah, the same in the UK (though I'd quibble about 'outcompete', and 'stronger than' is quite contingent in both countries in my view). Our public transport system still works way better than in the US. And I say that as someone who actually likes Amtrak.
- mrguyorama 4y ago
  That's a hilariously bold claim with zero evidence.
mgraczyk 4y ago
I think it's not as crazy as it sounds. You should visit SF and ride BART. You'll likely find the experience horrifying as a direct result of the behavior of these highly paid employees. The badness of the BART experience is a major cause of underinvestment. The public simply does not want more of that.

hnbad 4y ago

So you're saying BART employees are providing a vital job serving critical infrastructure? Sounds like the kind of worker you'd want to make sure gets decent pay and working conditions then. "Without leverage workers wouldn't be able to negotiate better salaries" is hardly a novel idea. The top 10% of people in software development (hint: if you're on HN, you're probably in that 10%) can usually rely on market demand as leverage for the time being. For everyone else the best chance at gaining leverage is collective bargaining. Seems like it's working quite well for BART employees. > our money What percentage of your income goes to BART? What percentage of your income goes to militarizing the police and to the prison industrial complex? What percentage of your income goes to the military industrial complex? What percentage of your income goes towards rent? What percentage of your total compensation goes towards health insurance? What percentage of your delivered value goes towards your employer? If you're upset about not getting your worth it feels like there are a lot bigger drains siphoning off that surplus value than BART. Seems odd to get so upset about BART salaries when their work seems to be vital enough that refusing to work can "paralyze the entire Bay Area".

BurningFrog 4y ago
- hnbad 4y ago
  You don't seem to be interested in providing arguments to give weight to your opinion that BART employees are overpaid, so your assessment reeks of projection. I don't even live in the US, let alone the Bay Area.