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If they skipped the rock splitting contest they would play exactly to your expectations. By showing the actual events you might believe Elrond has a plan or a w

If they skipped the rock splitting contest they would play exactly to your expectations. By showing the actual events you might believe Elrond has a plan or a way to win. I didn't know what would happen. And that made that scene better for me. The entire story of this show is well known in advance. If you know anything about LOTR you will know who Isildur is and what's going to happen. So should they just skip the entire show? It's the characters and their interactions, atop the beautiful visuals, that this show can establish itself with.

giraffe_lady 4y ago
> So should they just skip the entire show? This is a good question actually.
mcv 4y ago
Yeah, I have no problem with the rock-splitting scene. For me it's the boat to Valinor. Just that one boat trip already has at least half a dozen things wrong with it. A few I could have ignored, but it just keeps getting worse and worse. There's still many great scenes too. I love Elrond's friendship with Durin, Durin & Disa's relationship, the Harfoots, the Orcs, how Numenor Looks, how everyone in Numenor looks, how their ships look. I even enjoy the spectacular action scenes with insane leaps by the elves. There's lots of good stuff in there, but it's all held together why really awkward plot twists that make no sense.
m_mueller 4y ago
Totally agreed. As a LotR fan who read all the other books as well, I have difficulty understanding what everyone’s problem is - either you know the story and enjoy the fantastic visuals of what you always had in your head or you don’t and you then you might also enjoy to learn some of the deep mythology behind LotR.
- johncoltrane 4y ago
  I have read all his books back to back several times since I was a teen, each reading contributing more details to my head cannon… where elves don't have pointy ears, dwarves are not humans afflicted with achondroplasia, Galadriel is not an impulsive warrior shorter than every human she meets, etc. Somehow, that cannon of mine has survived my RPG years AND decades of memes extracted from Peter Jackson's movies but woah… watching that show with my daughter is painful. She doesn't have the same kind of relationship I have with the original material, though, so she loves it so far.
  - m_mueller 4y ago
    but I imagine, as a purist, PJ's movies were then painful as well, or weren't they? personally I respect that opinion, but it's not quite how I see the LotR universe - to me, the 'mass market' entertainment aspect of it is fine. I'd rather have more people to be inspired in any form, than to lock it down to a small group of purists like e.g. Christopher Tolkien.
    - johncoltrane 4y ago
      > but I imagine, as a purist, PJ's movies were then painful as well, or weren't they? I didn't watch them. > personally I respect that opinion, but it's not quite how I see the LotR universe - to me, the 'mass market' entertainment aspect of it is fine. I'm fine with it too. How it is adapted is just not my cup of tea. Besides, I wholeheartedly agree with William Gibson, here: > The assumption that a film adaption is the final and/or highest state, for a novel, is as woefully wrong as any assumption can be. I like to watch movies, but I like to read novels more and the original material is more than fine as-is. Tolkien's estate and William Gibson are just as much entitled to accept colossal cheques as "we" (this includes the authors themselves) are to reject what comes out of it. > I'd rather have more people to be inspired in any form, than to lock it down to a small group of purists like e.g. Christopher Tolkien. Well, I'd rather see the milking stop and have more people creating original stuff. If only because expectations would be low to non-existent.
      - prepend 4y ago
        > I didn't watch them. This is really fascinating to me that someone would not watch the movies but is watching Rings of Power. Would you tell your story a bit for how that happened? As a lifelong Tolkien fan, I tend to at least check out everything even if I don’t read or watch it. And I don’t have the self control to avoid the movies. Especially ones as great as Jackson’s (Return of the King has the most Oscar’s ever awarded to a film, tied with Ben Hur).
        johncoltrane 4y ago
smoldesu 4y ago
I feel you, if you enjoyed that then I don't want to take it away from you. It's frustrating to me because the best part of that episode was the negotiations they held immediately afterwards. I would have happily traded in the contest scene for the opportunity for the writers to really explore Elrond's relationship with the dwarves. It seemed like the sort of thing a Lord of the Rings adaptation might do, rather than succumbing to spectacle when it fits the pacing of the show best. But I guess everybody is looking for something different, I'll concede that I mostly wanted this to be Game of Thrones with less sex/violence and more interpersonal development & worldbuildiong.
- torstenvl 4y ago
  The rock-splitting contest is exploring Elrond's relationship with the elves. It isn't about smashing rocks. It's about Elrond submitting to a Dwarvish custom and making a not-terrible showing (for an elf). It demonstrates the respect he has for them and shows the half-measure of respect he earns from them. That is the key scene of the episode. The reconciliation would not have been possible without it.

giraffe_lady 4y ago

> So should they just skip the entire show? This is a good question actually.

mcv 4y ago

Yeah, I have no problem with the rock-splitting scene. For me it's the boat to Valinor. Just that one boat trip already has at least half a dozen things wrong with it. A few I could have ignored, but it just keeps getting worse and worse. There's still many great scenes too. I love Elrond's friendship with Durin, Durin & Disa's relationship, the Harfoots, the Orcs, how Numenor Looks, how everyone in Numenor looks, how their ships look. I even enjoy the spectacular action scenes with insane leaps by the elves. There's lots of good stuff in there, but it's all held together why really awkward plot twists that make no sense.

m_mueller 4y ago

Totally agreed. As a LotR fan who read all the other books as well, I have difficulty understanding what everyone’s problem is - either you know the story and enjoy the fantastic visuals of what you always had in your head or you don’t and you then you might also enjoy to learn some of the deep mythology behind LotR.

johncoltrane 4y ago
I have read all his books back to back several times since I was a teen, each reading contributing more details to my head cannon… where elves don't have pointy ears, dwarves are not humans afflicted with achondroplasia, Galadriel is not an impulsive warrior shorter than every human she meets, etc. Somehow, that cannon of mine has survived my RPG years AND decades of memes extracted from Peter Jackson's movies but woah… watching that show with my daughter is painful. She doesn't have the same kind of relationship I have with the original material, though, so she loves it so far.
- m_mueller 4y ago
  but I imagine, as a purist, PJ's movies were then painful as well, or weren't they? personally I respect that opinion, but it's not quite how I see the LotR universe - to me, the 'mass market' entertainment aspect of it is fine. I'd rather have more people to be inspired in any form, than to lock it down to a small group of purists like e.g. Christopher Tolkien.
  - johncoltrane 4y ago
    > but I imagine, as a purist, PJ's movies were then painful as well, or weren't they? I didn't watch them. > personally I respect that opinion, but it's not quite how I see the LotR universe - to me, the 'mass market' entertainment aspect of it is fine. I'm fine with it too. How it is adapted is just not my cup of tea. Besides, I wholeheartedly agree with William Gibson, here: > The assumption that a film adaption is the final and/or highest state, for a novel, is as woefully wrong as any assumption can be. I like to watch movies, but I like to read novels more and the original material is more than fine as-is. Tolkien's estate and William Gibson are just as much entitled to accept colossal cheques as "we" (this includes the authors themselves) are to reject what comes out of it. > I'd rather have more people to be inspired in any form, than to lock it down to a small group of purists like e.g. Christopher Tolkien. Well, I'd rather see the milking stop and have more people creating original stuff. If only because expectations would be low to non-existent.
    - prepend 4y ago
      > I didn't watch them. This is really fascinating to me that someone would not watch the movies but is watching Rings of Power. Would you tell your story a bit for how that happened? As a lifelong Tolkien fan, I tend to at least check out everything even if I don’t read or watch it. And I don’t have the self control to avoid the movies. Especially ones as great as Jackson’s (Return of the King has the most Oscar’s ever awarded to a film, tied with Ben Hur).
      - johncoltrane 4y ago

smoldesu 4y ago

I feel you, if you enjoyed that then I don't want to take it away from you. It's frustrating to me because the best part of that episode was the negotiations they held immediately afterwards. I would have happily traded in the contest scene for the opportunity for the writers to really explore Elrond's relationship with the dwarves. It seemed like the sort of thing a Lord of the Rings adaptation might do, rather than succumbing to spectacle when it fits the pacing of the show best. But I guess everybody is looking for something different, I'll concede that I mostly wanted this to be Game of Thrones with less sex/violence and more interpersonal development & worldbuildiong.

torstenvl 4y ago
The rock-splitting contest is exploring Elrond's relationship with the elves. It isn't about smashing rocks. It's about Elrond submitting to a Dwarvish custom and making a not-terrible showing (for an elf). It demonstrates the respect he has for them and shows the half-measure of respect he earns from them. That is the key scene of the episode. The reconciliation would not have been possible without it.