6 ms·

Musk admits he announced Hyperloop to get California’s high-speed rail canceled

65 points by trasz 4y ago

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
strangattractor 4y ago
I suppose announcing illegitimate children is an attempt to get marriage cancelled. Interesting strategy.
egourlao 4y ago
From reading the excerpt of the book Paris Marx quotes [0], Musk's criticism of the California HSR project seems focused on its cost & effectiveness (i.e. that the bullet train would be too slow, especially considering modern tech that's now available). Another way to frame his comments would be to say that Musk wanted to suggest a better alternative to the HSR project. I'm not sure which framing is the more accurate (not that well versed on trains), but seems valuable to point out ; I'm not convinced by the framing that Musk unveiled Hyperloop because he secretly wanted _no train at all_. [0]: https://twitter.com/parismarx/status/1557707438786330629 https://twitter.com/parismarx/status/1557707438786330629
- viciousvoxel 4y ago
  I'm inclined to split the difference. He had legitimate criticisms and for the most part his ultimate goals seem beneficial, but at the same time he's self-interested and seems happy to ensure he's the one making the buck in the process.
  - feet 4y ago
    I don't know how seriously anyone can take any of his criticisms, considering the lack of foresight into the physical possibilities of the things that he actually suggests. It's nonsense Maintaining the vacuum of the hyperloop would have used more energy than it would have saved from friction and reducing air friction would not have gained any noticeable speed over a well designed bullet train Plus have you seen the weird top heavy transportation thing he suggested lately? It's entirely absurd
    - thghtihadanacct 4y ago
      Dude sells cars now. Of course he is against trains.
      - feet 4y ago
        I'm referring to the physical impossibility of the things he suggests. Barely anybody seems to notice how entirely unfeasible his ideas are. That's besides the fact that he makes wild claims about his car tech while they have numerous quality control issues and never live up to those claims. He's just a profiteer and I don't know why anyone listens to him
        thghtihadanacct 4y ago
        People that prefer to be parked in tunnels rather than reading a book on a train?
      - Master_Odin 4y ago
        And he's pushing stuff like the Boring Tunnel that's in Las Vegas which is such a downgrade from trains. They can transport a few thousand people per hour, but also still suffer from traffic congestion, orders of magnitude worse than rail systems overseas, or something like MTA in NYC. No one should be paying attention to his suggestions for public transportation.
pinewurst 4y ago
California’s high speed rail is such a misbegotten mess that it’s the height of delusion to think Musk influences its fate.
- thghtihadanacct 4y ago
  And youre against easy transportation around the state because ...? edit ... im gonna go in with im am voting NO for fixing any major, non trucking roads in the future. your future hybrid SUV better have wings and graceful landings.
  - Rebelgecko 4y ago
    The following ideas are not mutually exclusive: 1. Easy transportation around the state is a good idea 2. If the original plan was to build 500 miles of high speed rail from SF to LA for $33b by 2029, but what we actually get in the year 2030 is 120 miles of HSR from Merced to Bakersfield for $120b, maybe the project is a mismanaged mess
    - Gibbon1 4y ago
      That's simply false. And you know that. They've spent about 10.3 billion so far not all of which has been spent on the central valley section. And this spring they approved 4.2 billion to finish the initial section. So we're talking 13 billion for 100 miles. One tenth your claim. Worse for the Nimby's and industry funded AstroTurf groups is the last court challenges have failed. And so the courts can no longer be used to slow things down either. All they can do is continue to pay for doom and gloom articles to be published.
      - Justin_K 4y ago
        What's your source? Wikipedia cites several sources at a budget of over 100m. The fact is this project is over 4x the initial budget sold to voters. It's a total money pit and political scam. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_High-Speed_Rail#:~:text=In%20addition%2C%20the%20cost%20of,35%20percent%20opposed%20continuing%20it https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_High-Speed_Rail#:....
mulcahey 4y ago
"Admits"? This is phrased as if it is some bombshell, when it seems this was obvious from the beginning. Elon's been a critic of the CA High Speed Rail project for nearly a decade! [0] The literal whitepaper that announced the Hyperloop concept contrasts itself to the CA Rail project on the damn first page! [1] He's basically been screaming for everyone to aim higher instead of accepting mediocrity even relative to what already exists across the pond. The Hyperloop project itself was proposed clearly and explicitly to contrast with the CA rail project, suggesting "maybe this is what we could do if only we tried!" In practically all the public appearances about this project (and in explanations for why he founded SpaceX) he's been clear and repetitive in stating that he wants to see inspiring things get built, if for no other reason than for us to want to get out of bed in the morning. Of course Musk desired the CA rail project not to be built. And of course he didn't intend to build the Hyperloop himself. He'd been plenty explicit about that as well -- it's the explanation for why this was a paper and not a 5th company he's CEO of today. [0] https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/376439054209781761 https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/376439054209781761 [1] https://www.tesla.com/sites/default/files/blog_images/hyperloop-alpha.pdf https://www.tesla.com/sites/default/files/blog_images/hyperl...
Grim-444 4y ago
According to this random (obviously socially/politically motivated) twitter user, who says they heard it from someone else who was allegedly told this in private. That's pretty far from "Musk admits".
jp0d 4y ago
As long as transportation remains very much car centric, high speed rail isn't going to take off. I don't really know much about transportation systems in the USA except for what I read online. The train network can only connect the big cities or smaller ones on the route. Surely the bigger question is how do people travel once they get off the train. It's again back to cars unless most major cities have a robust public transportation system. Elon Musk as a businessman wouldn't want to miss that opportunity to push an alternative to high speed rail and sell more cars!
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
rizoma_dev 4y ago
I don't know if the hl actually influenced the development of the hsr, but that project itself wasn't enough. The USA sorely needs extensive and affordable passenger rail if we want to cut down on airline emissions

65 points by trasz 4y ago

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

strangattractor 4y ago

I suppose announcing illegitimate children is an attempt to get marriage cancelled. Interesting strategy.

egourlao 4y ago

From reading the excerpt of the book Paris Marx quotes [0], Musk's criticism of the California HSR project seems focused on its cost & effectiveness (i.e. that the bullet train would be too slow, especially considering modern tech that's now available). Another way to frame his comments would be to say that Musk wanted to suggest a better alternative to the HSR project. I'm not sure which framing is the more accurate (not that well versed on trains), but seems valuable to point out ; I'm not convinced by the framing that Musk unveiled Hyperloop because he secretly wanted _no train at all_. [0]: https://twitter.com/parismarx/status/1557707438786330629 https://twitter.com/parismarx/status/1557707438786330629

viciousvoxel 4y ago
I'm inclined to split the difference. He had legitimate criticisms and for the most part his ultimate goals seem beneficial, but at the same time he's self-interested and seems happy to ensure he's the one making the buck in the process.
- feet 4y ago
  I don't know how seriously anyone can take any of his criticisms, considering the lack of foresight into the physical possibilities of the things that he actually suggests. It's nonsense Maintaining the vacuum of the hyperloop would have used more energy than it would have saved from friction and reducing air friction would not have gained any noticeable speed over a well designed bullet train Plus have you seen the weird top heavy transportation thing he suggested lately? It's entirely absurd
  - thghtihadanacct 4y ago
    Dude sells cars now. Of course he is against trains.
    - feet 4y ago
      I'm referring to the physical impossibility of the things he suggests. Barely anybody seems to notice how entirely unfeasible his ideas are. That's besides the fact that he makes wild claims about his car tech while they have numerous quality control issues and never live up to those claims. He's just a profiteer and I don't know why anyone listens to him
      - thghtihadanacct 4y ago
        People that prefer to be parked in tunnels rather than reading a book on a train?
    - Master_Odin 4y ago
      And he's pushing stuff like the Boring Tunnel that's in Las Vegas which is such a downgrade from trains. They can transport a few thousand people per hour, but also still suffer from traffic congestion, orders of magnitude worse than rail systems overseas, or something like MTA in NYC. No one should be paying attention to his suggestions for public transportation.

pinewurst 4y ago

California’s high speed rail is such a misbegotten mess that it’s the height of delusion to think Musk influences its fate.

thghtihadanacct 4y ago
And youre against easy transportation around the state because ...? edit ... im gonna go in with im am voting NO for fixing any major, non trucking roads in the future. your future hybrid SUV better have wings and graceful landings.
- Rebelgecko 4y ago
  The following ideas are not mutually exclusive: 1. Easy transportation around the state is a good idea 2. If the original plan was to build 500 miles of high speed rail from SF to LA for $33b by 2029, but what we actually get in the year 2030 is 120 miles of HSR from Merced to Bakersfield for $120b, maybe the project is a mismanaged mess
  - Gibbon1 4y ago
    That's simply false. And you know that. They've spent about 10.3 billion so far not all of which has been spent on the central valley section. And this spring they approved 4.2 billion to finish the initial section. So we're talking 13 billion for 100 miles. One tenth your claim. Worse for the Nimby's and industry funded AstroTurf groups is the last court challenges have failed. And so the courts can no longer be used to slow things down either. All they can do is continue to pay for doom and gloom articles to be published.
    - Justin_K 4y ago
      What's your source? Wikipedia cites several sources at a budget of over 100m. The fact is this project is over 4x the initial budget sold to voters. It's a total money pit and political scam. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_High-Speed_Rail#:~:text=In%20addition%2C%20the%20cost%20of,35%20percent%20opposed%20continuing%20it https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_High-Speed_Rail#:....

mulcahey 4y ago

"Admits"? This is phrased as if it is some bombshell, when it seems this was obvious from the beginning. Elon's been a critic of the CA High Speed Rail project for nearly a decade! [0] The literal whitepaper that announced the Hyperloop concept contrasts itself to the CA Rail project on the damn first page! [1] He's basically been screaming for everyone to aim higher instead of accepting mediocrity even relative to what already exists across the pond. The Hyperloop project itself was proposed clearly and explicitly to contrast with the CA rail project, suggesting "maybe this is what we could do if only we tried!" In practically all the public appearances about this project (and in explanations for why he founded SpaceX) he's been clear and repetitive in stating that he wants to see inspiring things get built, if for no other reason than for us to want to get out of bed in the morning. Of course Musk desired the CA rail project not to be built. And of course he didn't intend to build the Hyperloop himself. He'd been plenty explicit about that as well -- it's the explanation for why this was a paper and not a 5th company he's CEO of today. [0] https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/376439054209781761 https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/376439054209781761 [1] https://www.tesla.com/sites/default/files/blog_images/hyperloop-alpha.pdf https://www.tesla.com/sites/default/files/blog_images/hyperl...

Grim-444 4y ago

According to this random (obviously socially/politically motivated) twitter user, who says they heard it from someone else who was allegedly told this in private. That's pretty far from "Musk admits".

jp0d 4y ago

As long as transportation remains very much car centric, high speed rail isn't going to take off. I don't really know much about transportation systems in the USA except for what I read online. The train network can only connect the big cities or smaller ones on the route. Surely the bigger question is how do people travel once they get off the train. It's again back to cars unless most major cities have a robust public transportation system. Elon Musk as a businessman wouldn't want to miss that opportunity to push an alternative to high speed rail and sell more cars!

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

rizoma_dev 4y ago

I don't know if the hl actually influenced the development of the hsr, but that project itself wasn't enough. The USA sorely needs extensive and affordable passenger rail if we want to cut down on airline emissions