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I think requiring standardized tests of homeschooled kids is a pretty good compromise… The standardized tests are ridiculously easy to ace if you're smart, and

I think requiring standardized tests of homeschooled kids is a pretty good compromise… The standardized tests are ridiculously easy to ace if you're smart, and they'd catch kids who aren't learning reading or basic arithmetic

asperous 4y ago
At least in Oregon this is already a thing https://www.oregon.gov/ode/learning-options/HomeSchool/Pages/default.aspx https://www.oregon.gov/ode/learning-options/HomeSchool/Pages...
quantified 4y ago
Except that even what you're testing them on may not be really the most useful or applicable stuff. Any such testing would need to take into account what they actually have been doing and learning. Since the point of much learning is to be able to do, looking at accomplishment is super important. And a productive evaluation of people like the subject here might be challenging to system educators with a vested interest in our factory schooling.
- bobthepanda 4y ago
  The normal requirements we expect in an industrialized society are the basics of reading and writing, and some math. Unschooling sure has its benefits, but the child will have to navigate an adult world where that is table stakes. We don’t want to consign students to a life of poverty because of a lack of literacy. https://archive.ph/1xaHW https://archive.ph/1xaHW
  - quantified 4y ago
    Better have some science and civics too. I think the challenge is less about the mechanics (reading, writing) and more about the content expressed via these, as there has to be some element of common content as well.
    - bobthepanda 4y ago
      At least in NYS, not only are the test criteria released, but there are actually previous years’ tests published for the purposes of practicing. https://www.nysedregents.org/elementary-intermediate.html https://www.nysedregents.org/elementary-intermediate.html Their criteria is pretty basic “you need to be able to comprehend a 800-word news article”, and we are often failing to meet those standards with alternative education (which isn’t even just homeschooling, parochial systems have issues here too.) At the end of the day, a service worker needs to be able to read the prices being wrung up on the cash register, and a factory worker should be able to read an instruction manual and safety rules. Not meeting those basic standards basically relegates you to a very small amount of jobs.
germinalphrase 4y ago
We don’t even universally require our schools to do standardized testing, so good luck getting traction.
NateEag 4y ago
Pennsylvania does this in 3rd, 5th, and 8th grades. Taking standardized tests in my youth was always a nice break - massively easier than the actual schoolwork I was doing.
mensetmanusman 4y ago
They just got rid of some of these tests in CA public schools…
- dragonwriter 4y ago
  AFAICT, the closest thing to this that actually happened was adopting a shorter version of certain tests starting this past Spring.
crawfordcomeaux 4y ago
I've heard there's evidence that delaying literacy and numeracy has meaningful and potentially desirable effects on brain development. If a child and parents want to test that out, why not allow them to do so?
- cauthon 4y ago
  Children cannot provide informed consent, for one
- watwut 4y ago
  Yes if you mean starting to teach them read and write at 7 instead of at 5. No if you mean cutting away majority of curriculum and teaching the rest by having kid doing sheets alone on kitchen table until isolated bored kid slows or gives up.
  - crawfordcomeaux 4y ago
    Yeah, the former.

asperous 4y ago

At least in Oregon this is already a thing https://www.oregon.gov/ode/learning-options/HomeSchool/Pages/default.aspx https://www.oregon.gov/ode/learning-options/HomeSchool/Pages...

quantified 4y ago

Except that even what you're testing them on may not be really the most useful or applicable stuff. Any such testing would need to take into account what they actually have been doing and learning. Since the point of much learning is to be able to do, looking at accomplishment is super important. And a productive evaluation of people like the subject here might be challenging to system educators with a vested interest in our factory schooling.

bobthepanda 4y ago
The normal requirements we expect in an industrialized society are the basics of reading and writing, and some math. Unschooling sure has its benefits, but the child will have to navigate an adult world where that is table stakes. We don’t want to consign students to a life of poverty because of a lack of literacy. https://archive.ph/1xaHW https://archive.ph/1xaHW
- quantified 4y ago
  Better have some science and civics too. I think the challenge is less about the mechanics (reading, writing) and more about the content expressed via these, as there has to be some element of common content as well.
  - bobthepanda 4y ago
    At least in NYS, not only are the test criteria released, but there are actually previous years’ tests published for the purposes of practicing. https://www.nysedregents.org/elementary-intermediate.html https://www.nysedregents.org/elementary-intermediate.html Their criteria is pretty basic “you need to be able to comprehend a 800-word news article”, and we are often failing to meet those standards with alternative education (which isn’t even just homeschooling, parochial systems have issues here too.) At the end of the day, a service worker needs to be able to read the prices being wrung up on the cash register, and a factory worker should be able to read an instruction manual and safety rules. Not meeting those basic standards basically relegates you to a very small amount of jobs.

germinalphrase 4y ago

We don’t even universally require our schools to do standardized testing, so good luck getting traction.

NateEag 4y ago

Pennsylvania does this in 3rd, 5th, and 8th grades. Taking standardized tests in my youth was always a nice break - massively easier than the actual schoolwork I was doing.

mensetmanusman 4y ago

They just got rid of some of these tests in CA public schools…

dragonwriter 4y ago
AFAICT, the closest thing to this that actually happened was adopting a shorter version of certain tests starting this past Spring.

crawfordcomeaux 4y ago

I've heard there's evidence that delaying literacy and numeracy has meaningful and potentially desirable effects on brain development. If a child and parents want to test that out, why not allow them to do so?

cauthon 4y ago
Children cannot provide informed consent, for one
watwut 4y ago
Yes if you mean starting to teach them read and write at 7 instead of at 5. No if you mean cutting away majority of curriculum and teaching the rest by having kid doing sheets alone on kitchen table until isolated bored kid slows or gives up.
- crawfordcomeaux 4y ago
  Yeah, the former.