9 ms·
Tuned Mass Damper of Taipei 101
- z9znz 4y ago> Safety comes at a hefty price, however, as the tower’s tuned mass damper cost $4 million to build. A paltry 4 million for a project which cost almost 2 billion (USD); and I imagine it resulted in some measurable reductions in insurance cost. But I wonder, what happens if the entire land that it stands on shifts and is no longer level? That pendulum won't help right a tilted building, and in fact it will move the center of gravity of the building much higher, putting more stress on the structure (when the entire structure is leaning).
- LegitShady 4y agoTall buildings are built with deep foundation systems. Taipei 101 has 380 1.5m diameter piles tied into a 3m thick concrete raft that creates its basement. The piles rock socketed into some 40-60m below the structure. those piles are socketed up to 30m into the bedrock. https://www.civilengineeringforum.me/the-tower-of-taipei-101/ https://www.civilengineeringforum.me/the-tower-of-taipei-101... https://structures-explained.com/taipei-101-structural-engineering/ https://structures-explained.com/taipei-101-structural-engin... It is designed to resist high earthquakes and typhoons. The damper changes the mode of the vibrations to reduce the peak stresses. If an earthquake is going to destroy the foundation there is nothing the tuned mass damper can do. If the entire building is leaning it almost certainly a write off and will be demolished.
- samstave 4y ago
- HyperSane 4y agoThe Millennium Tower piles do not rest on bedrock, it was supposed to use friction with the soil instead. This is cheaper and CAN work but it is far easier to get wrong than having the piles rest directly on bedrock.
- samstave 4y agoyes thats exactly what I said. EDIT: Yo -- when I mentioned Pence and Montana... Iknow several people who owned places in the building, and drank next to Montana in the residents' bar with.... im very familiar with the building And if you need a very secure location to lock your bike up in SF (which is a good idea) ring the security bell in the parking breezeway near the dumpster, the security guard will open the door - the lock your thing to the stand they have (LPT: anytime youre in SF rather than use a bike rack outside (people steal your saddles)... drop$5 to check your bike in with a bellhop at a nice hotel.... and they will accomodate you for a week..
- samstave 4y agoso fn funny ; people downvote this, LPT - but YSK bikes these days are in the $15,000 range... Mine is $8k and its the low med range of bike... So seriously - if you are spending on your kicks like that, make friends with a bellhop so you dont go through the agony of having a bike stolen from you. If youre in the bay area... MikesBikes is your friend
- HyperSane 4y agoSir, this is a Wendy's
- zmgsabst 4y agoBuilding Integrity has a series on this project. https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLQw1wzpZL_lqdvDEa0EEq0QgkngMtpbyT https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLQw1wzpZL_lqdvDEa0EEq...
- SamBam 4y agoI watched a very tall building near me get build. The pounded in 20m piles into the bedrock with a gigantic hammer, for 12 hours a day for many days. It was amazing to see those massive lengths go deep into the earth, and also it was amazing how rythmic pounding for days will drive you insane.
- iancmceachern 4y agoIt's not a price, it's what enables it. Without the damper, the building would have to be shorter.
- hprotagonist 4y agoIn some other buildings, tuned mass dampers are a post-hoc kludge. https://www.lemessurier.com/john_hancock_tower https://www.lemessurier.com/john_hancock_tower
- doomlaser 4y agoFootage of it in motion during today's 6.8 magnitude earthquake: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qnSh8C40i1s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qnSh8C40i1s
- graderjs 4y agoIt was actually a 6.9 https://earthquake.usgs.gov/earthquakes/eventpage/us7000i90q/ https://earthquake.usgs.gov/earthquakes/eventpage/us7000i90q...
- luobogao 4y agoActually Taipei was only around 2. Magnitudes 6-7 were in the epicenter near Taitung, fairly far away - about 200-300km.
- graderjs 4y agoThis is not even an actually... The reviewed magnitude on USGS is 6.9 at the epicenter of course that's what I'm referring to. What are you even saying? Magnitudes 6-7 were in the epicenter near Taitung, fairly far away - about 200-300km Haha I'm well aware of that. I'm not saying that's not the case I'm saying in another comment that the shaking that I felt, I felt sickening. What you say doesn't contradict what I'm saying Just disagreeing for the sake of it? Stupid and abusive.
- aaron695 4y ago
- chiph 4y agoThe shape/design was copied by the Westworld designers for the quantum supercomputer "Rehoboam" in season 3. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TgBtBkW0u8Y https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TgBtBkW0u8Y Also - given the large motion of the damper in today's earthquake, why weren't more people freaking out? I'm also curious about how much the dampers (shock absorbers) heated up from restraining the movement of the ball.
- ezconnect 4y agoPeople are not freaking out because the damper is doing its job of limiting the movement of the building. They never felt the actual force of the earthquake.
- samstave 4y agoThis engineering idea/concept/design is WAY older than "westworld" Look at japanese engineering that implemented the same concept for their castles... WAY THE HECK earlier...
- dwringer 4y agoAlthough it's in passive voice and thus not always taught or preferred, "<x> was copied by <y>" means that <x> came first, not <y>.
- saryant 4y agoI was on the ground floor of a modern building in Tokyo when Fukushima happened and barely felt a thing. These systems are remarkably effective.
- Beldin 4y agoI would not expect this system to have any effect on shaking at ground floor level - it's meant to counteract sway, which at ground floor should be zero.
- perilunar 4y agoThe wikipedia article has more info: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tuned_mass_damper https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tuned_mass_damper Also, TIL about Stockbridge dampers. Always wondered what those things were.
- Theory5 4y agoAtlas Obscura has great stuff, but their articles are never enough. Always too short.
- jccc 4y agoVideo of the damper movement during the 2008 Sichuan earthquake: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NYSgd1XSZXc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NYSgd1XSZXc
- steele 4y agoDamper baby best baby
- donw 4y agoCame here for this. They’re called “damper babies” and have cute little characters explaining the physics when you visit Taipei 101.
- loloquwowndueo 4y agoDamper baby miniatures are available in the Taipei 101 gift shop. I have a yellow one :)
- samatman 4y agoI still have my keyfob somewhere, first thing I thought of as well.
- carapace 4y agoIn these earthquake videos, am I correct in thinking that the mass is stationary and the building is moving around it?
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- rrrrrrrrrrrryan 4y agoWell, the damper isn't completely stationary, but it is moving much less than the building around it, yes. A good demonstration here: https://m.youtube.com/watch?t=607&v=VCxm3vTWgvU&feature=youtu.be https://m.youtube.com/watch?t=607&v=VCxm3vTWgvU&feature=yout...
- donw 4y agoMostly, yes. The damper acts as a pendulum that’s out of phase with the frequency of the earthquake, negating most of the effects on the building.
- benknight87 4y agoIt’s one of the coolest parts about visiting the observatory. Most people just walk right by it on their way back down.
- ck2 4y agoModern engineering is amazing given the build of knowledge that was needed over a thousand years. But I'm more amazed it was all built correctly by the lowest bidders on materials, sometimes mafia controlled, by the lowest cost workers sometimes still drunk and hungover from the night before.
- sparker72678 4y ago> But I'm more amazed it was all built correctly by the lowest bidders on materials, sometimes mafia controlled, by the lowest cost workers sometimes still drunk and hungover from the night before. Kinda trippy to realize this is true for almost everything in civilization.
- jwmoz 4y agoI've felt 4 earthquakes in 2 days. The bigger one was when I was in a department store 11th floor in Xinyi, horrible, horrible. One of the reasons I can't live here permanently. Last year there were much more earthquakes.
- graderjs 4y agoDo you remember that 7.2 a couple years ago? Much closer to Taipei then these Hualien quakes. That felt really sickening to me. The ones yesterday I felt pretty sick for a while too
- bhrgunatha 4y agoAre you misremembering the 6.4 from 2018 in Hualien? There were no 7+ magnitude quakes in recent years. [1] The closest is 2016 at 7.1 which took out some undersea internet cables the caused a reduction in spam worldwide of 50%. [2] [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taiwan_earthquakes https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taiwan_earthquakes [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2006_Hengchun_earthquakes https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2006_Hengchun_earthquakes
- graderjs 4y agoNo there was definitely a 7 a few years back, I didn't say it was in Hualien. Do I really need to check this, for your convincing, can't you just believe me? alright I checked: this is weird, but can't remember this one being a 6. Anyway, it was 7 on the Taiwan intensity scale. Maybe that's where I got it from? https://scweb.cwb.gov.tw/en-us/earthquake/details/EE2019041813010763031 https://scweb.cwb.gov.tw/en-us/earthquake/details/EE20190418... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019_Hualien_earthquake https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019_Hualien_earthquake f off downvoters
- Taniwha 4y agoRemember that Taiwan and the USGS report on different scales
- latchkey 4y agoNot looking forward to the Millennium Tower in SF footage when the next big one hits there.
- irjustin 4y agoA very interesting counter-part design is the Burj Khalifa tower in Dubai that while taller, does not have any dampener at all[0]. It does need to be mentioned that the Burj Khalifa only needs to deal with winds and does not need to worry about earthquakes where as Taipei 101 does both. [0] https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-Burj-Khalifa-damper-system https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-Burj-Khalifa-damper-system
- baybal2 4y agoDubai has earthquakes, and quite frequent ones.
- buildbot 4y agoI recall that the design of the Burj Khalifa is quite unique and very scalable. A really cool feet of engineering from this company: https://www.som.com/projects/burj-khalifa/ https://www.som.com/projects/burj-khalifa/
- AlexandrB 4y agoCounterpoint: https://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/world-news/dubais-burj-khalifa-doesnt-sewage-26095095 https://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/world-news/dubais-burj-khal... Although this isn't the fault of the companies that designed/built the Burj Khalifa.
- kazinator 4y agoTuned mass daｍper of HN: dang?
- max51 4y agoPassive mass dampers are used for wind, not earthquakes. their performance for earthquake is so bad that researchers don't even bother studying it. If you use google scholars, the only results you get are researchers mentioning in their intro that passive systems don't work for seismic and then they propose an active (ei. with motors, pumps, etc.) system or a semi-active system (ef. fluid dampers with electronically controlled valves). Passive mass dampers (ei. no valves, motors, etc.) like the one in Taipei 101 require too long to resonate with the earthquake and dissipate energy. by the time they start doing work, the earthquake is over. This subject is like airplane lift explanations, the misinformation gets repeated so much that it even make its way into college textbooks.
- vl 4y agoOr how skates work on ice.
- strainer 4y agoHow about the mass dampers in thousand year old Japanese pagoda architecture ? https://www.electronicsweekly.com/blogs/engineer-in-wonderland/japanese-wooden-earthquake-proofing-2018-09/ https://www.electronicsweekly.com/blogs/engineer-in-wonderla...
- max51 4y agosame thing, they take too long to start working. without active sensors/valves, they are useless for seismic and no one yet has been whiling to take the risk on active system. I'm sure we'll see them eventually, it's just not worth the risk for now.
- keepquestioning 4y agoIs Taipei 101 the greatest building of all time?
- rasz 4y agoSomewhat tangential https://www.seakeeper.com https://www.seakeeper.com does boat dampers with gyroscopes.
- taubek 4y agoI saw the video this morning. I didn't even know that such thing was possible. I remember reading about building being on some kind of rollers, but this is whole new level.
- phkahler 4y ago>> As one of the tallest structures in the world, located only 660 feet from a major fault line... I don't care what kind of fancy mass damper you've got, this just seems like a bad idea. The same building would be safer somewhere else. Why do humans insist of trying to defy nature?
- ravi-delia 4y agoNature would have us dying in childbirth (as babies and mothers), most times we get injured, and in brutal generational raids. Once you agree to birthing forceps and antibiotics we've established the kind of person you are, and move on to negotiating the price.
- toast0 4y agoIt's better to knowingly build next to a major fault line than to build next to a major fault line discovered after you built. There's also the issue that tallest structures really need to be placed in areas of extreme density in order to attract the usage they need to be economically viable. Our ancestors didn't tend to plan cities around suitable geography for buildings these tall, but we'd have trouble convincing people to move to a planned city with better geography.