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Why would they do that, Porsche is a strong brand they do not need that, i called it, we are living the beginning of the death of the German automobile industry

Why would they do that, Porsche is a strong brand they do not need that, i called it, we are living the beginning of the death of the German automobile industry, them embracing android/iOS car OS, what ever it is called, was already a sign, to the doubters, there is 0 car OS ecosystem, tesla proved it, it has to be built from the ground up, it's the perfect opportunity to create an alternative to iOS/Android, alongside with smart watches, and yet they went with them, sign of poor skills and poor taste at the top of the hierarchy short term CEO for a quick short

theluketaylor 4y ago
It’s non-voting shares. It’s free money without any risk of losing control. The Volkswagen corporate structure is really confusing due to complex financial maneuvering by the Porsche/Piech family over the past 20 years. 30% of Volkswagen AG is owned by Porsche SE (a holding company under the control of the Porsche/Piech family, not the car maker), but those shares are more than 50% of the voting shares. Volkswagen AG contain Porsche AG (the car maker). Porsche has been a money printing machine for quite a while, so why not cash in with an IPO when there is 0 risk of losing control?
- Kukumber 4y ago
  https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/porsche-and-volkswagen-have-the-worst-ever-ipo-timing/2022/09/06/cd9bfb18-2dca-11ed-bcc6-0874b26ae296_story.html https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/porsche-and-volkswag...
- nemothekid 4y ago
  >Porsche has been a money printing machine for quite a while, so why not cash in with an IPO when there is 0 risk of losing control? Even if its free, everyone who works there may now start to base their performance off the stock price.
parkingrift 4y ago
>to the doubters, there is 0 car OS ecosystem, tesla proved it, it has to be built from the ground up, it's the perfect opportunity to create an alternative to iOS/Android Counterpoint: I will not buy a car that does not support Apple CarPlay. That includes Tesla. I don’t want to deal with whatever proprietary garbage the manufacturer wants to run. I don’t want to sync contacts and settings to some half assed service a car manufacturer created. Nope. I won’t even entertain buying a car that doesn’t support CarPlay.
- Kukumber 4y ago
  I agree with you, proprietary software is a thing of the past If it's not open and opensource, it is dead on arrival
- Spivak 4y ago
  Well yeah, because everything except Android Auto and CarPlay are garbage. I think it’s very possible that if a not garbage entrant not affiliated with an existing mobile OS but also not tied to particular manufacturers popped up it might sway people. The tie in with the OS might not end up being that important, Spotify is bigger than Apple Music and YT Music after all so platforms don’t have infinite lock-in power.
- Bubble_Pop_22 4y ago
  Your phone and your car have no reason , absolutely no reason to be connected to one amnother You can just do a one time log in on all your accounts via the car OS and stay logged in on your phone at the same time. The rest of the world doesnt have this dependency because they dont communicate via calls and iMessage but via Whatsapp/wechat calls and whatsapp/wechat texts If anything the high reliance on a tyrannical ecosystem such as Apple underlines the high sensitivity of the public toward corporate cults and the power of advertising over masses. Ridiculing people who have android phones because of the “green text” is a national pastime which has by and large surpassed baseball which in fairness was already evident in the era of Windows complete dominance over the desktop OS market …but at least the Microsoft ecosystem is free of charge (if you know where to look for it) given that from the early days the philosophy at Redmond is to turn a blind eye on piracy.
  - sokoloff 4y ago
    CarPlay navigation displayed on the large, easy-to-see, and easy-to-touch screen in the car is hugely better (and IMO safer) than any OEM Nav system, which are IME universally between utter garbage and merely outdated.
    - Bubble_Pop_22 4y ago
screye 4y ago
Volkswagen confuses me. The new e-Van shows the strength of brand nostalgia and a pretty great engineering core for building solid cars with a perfect match for the target market. At the same time, I haven't seen 1 positive take of Volkswagen's terrible new touch UX. They seem truly clueless about how to make physical systems coexist with smart-intefaces. How does something like that get past so many executives ? Porsche is in a wierd predicament right now. They reached perfection. The cars handle perfectly, they are faster than any human can handle and the classic look practically defines the brand. The sports cars sell themselves faster than they can manufacture. The other big way to make money is SUVs, but Audi is already in that market..... they'd cannibalize each other. The future for the cornering sports car is bleak. You can't build light cars anymore because electric vehicles are all dead weight. Pure-unassisted-ish steering feels terrible in electric cars and leaning into the weight for handling will make you into a Tesla, and you absolutely don't want to compete with Tesla on their own turf.
- colinjoy 4y ago
  > SUVs, but Audi is already in that market..... they'd cannibalize each other. Almost all of the VW car brands have SUVs in their portfolio. This includes Bentley, Lamborghini and, indeed, Porsche. I would not be surprised to learn that Porsche sells more SUVs than non-SUVs.
- garyfirestorm 4y ago
  You’re making it sound like the problems define the brands today. In fact everyone faces nearly identical set of problems just that their approach to solve them are unique. Almost all EVs will weigh very high over 5k lbs and will have motors that produce instantaneous torque. The vehicle segment is merely defined by what body you put on a skateboard modular frame.
- Kukumber 4y ago
  Tesla is plastic car, poor build quality and 0 garage available when you have a problem, same with Rivian, all these new EV company are dead on arrival, you have to send them somewhere, and wait many months for repairs I never said Volkswagen is dead, i said German car industry is dying, Volkswagen brand will live by itself and continue to improve I am worried on the current leadership, not on the cars or the brand Don't try to twist what i said to promote your agenda, i can see what you are trying to achieve Last, the problem of EV is specially their interface, nobody wants to drive their car and TOUCH a FLAT SCREEN, you want physical interfaces, and that's where Volkswagen excels at, and where the brand new american EVs fail at, including Tesla, they have a poor UX and a poor tactical/physical feedback, that's the proof of poor build quality, poor taste and lack of experience, which Volkswagen don't have, they just need better software, wich they want to solve by using android/iOS, and that's why i believe the "GERMAN" car industry is dying
okdood64 4y ago
What? BMW actually has a superior and far more usable infotainment system than Porsche, and they're public. I don't see your point. I agree Porsche doesn't need this, and their brand is more than fine as it is. But talking about the Teslafication of cars as it relates to being public or not is confusing to me.

theluketaylor 4y ago

It’s non-voting shares. It’s free money without any risk of losing control. The Volkswagen corporate structure is really confusing due to complex financial maneuvering by the Porsche/Piech family over the past 20 years. 30% of Volkswagen AG is owned by Porsche SE (a holding company under the control of the Porsche/Piech family, not the car maker), but those shares are more than 50% of the voting shares. Volkswagen AG contain Porsche AG (the car maker). Porsche has been a money printing machine for quite a while, so why not cash in with an IPO when there is 0 risk of losing control?

Kukumber 4y ago
https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/porsche-and-volkswagen-have-the-worst-ever-ipo-timing/2022/09/06/cd9bfb18-2dca-11ed-bcc6-0874b26ae296_story.html https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/porsche-and-volkswag...
nemothekid 4y ago
>Porsche has been a money printing machine for quite a while, so why not cash in with an IPO when there is 0 risk of losing control? Even if its free, everyone who works there may now start to base their performance off the stock price.

parkingrift 4y ago

>to the doubters, there is 0 car OS ecosystem, tesla proved it, it has to be built from the ground up, it's the perfect opportunity to create an alternative to iOS/Android Counterpoint: I will not buy a car that does not support Apple CarPlay. That includes Tesla. I don’t want to deal with whatever proprietary garbage the manufacturer wants to run. I don’t want to sync contacts and settings to some half assed service a car manufacturer created. Nope. I won’t even entertain buying a car that doesn’t support CarPlay.

Kukumber 4y ago
I agree with you, proprietary software is a thing of the past If it's not open and opensource, it is dead on arrival
Spivak 4y ago
Well yeah, because everything except Android Auto and CarPlay are garbage. I think it’s very possible that if a not garbage entrant not affiliated with an existing mobile OS but also not tied to particular manufacturers popped up it might sway people. The tie in with the OS might not end up being that important, Spotify is bigger than Apple Music and YT Music after all so platforms don’t have infinite lock-in power.
Bubble_Pop_22 4y ago
Your phone and your car have no reason , absolutely no reason to be connected to one amnother You can just do a one time log in on all your accounts via the car OS and stay logged in on your phone at the same time. The rest of the world doesnt have this dependency because they dont communicate via calls and iMessage but via Whatsapp/wechat calls and whatsapp/wechat texts If anything the high reliance on a tyrannical ecosystem such as Apple underlines the high sensitivity of the public toward corporate cults and the power of advertising over masses. Ridiculing people who have android phones because of the “green text” is a national pastime which has by and large surpassed baseball which in fairness was already evident in the era of Windows complete dominance over the desktop OS market …but at least the Microsoft ecosystem is free of charge (if you know where to look for it) given that from the early days the philosophy at Redmond is to turn a blind eye on piracy.
- sokoloff 4y ago
  CarPlay navigation displayed on the large, easy-to-see, and easy-to-touch screen in the car is hugely better (and IMO safer) than any OEM Nav system, which are IME universally between utter garbage and merely outdated.
  - Bubble_Pop_22 4y ago

screye 4y ago

Volkswagen confuses me. The new e-Van shows the strength of brand nostalgia and a pretty great engineering core for building solid cars with a perfect match for the target market. At the same time, I haven't seen 1 positive take of Volkswagen's terrible new touch UX. They seem truly clueless about how to make physical systems coexist with smart-intefaces. How does something like that get past so many executives ? Porsche is in a wierd predicament right now. They reached perfection. The cars handle perfectly, they are faster than any human can handle and the classic look practically defines the brand. The sports cars sell themselves faster than they can manufacture. The other big way to make money is SUVs, but Audi is already in that market..... they'd cannibalize each other. The future for the cornering sports car is bleak. You can't build light cars anymore because electric vehicles are all dead weight. Pure-unassisted-ish steering feels terrible in electric cars and leaning into the weight for handling will make you into a Tesla, and you absolutely don't want to compete with Tesla on their own turf.

colinjoy 4y ago
> SUVs, but Audi is already in that market..... they'd cannibalize each other. Almost all of the VW car brands have SUVs in their portfolio. This includes Bentley, Lamborghini and, indeed, Porsche. I would not be surprised to learn that Porsche sells more SUVs than non-SUVs.
garyfirestorm 4y ago
You’re making it sound like the problems define the brands today. In fact everyone faces nearly identical set of problems just that their approach to solve them are unique. Almost all EVs will weigh very high over 5k lbs and will have motors that produce instantaneous torque. The vehicle segment is merely defined by what body you put on a skateboard modular frame.
Kukumber 4y ago
Tesla is plastic car, poor build quality and 0 garage available when you have a problem, same with Rivian, all these new EV company are dead on arrival, you have to send them somewhere, and wait many months for repairs I never said Volkswagen is dead, i said German car industry is dying, Volkswagen brand will live by itself and continue to improve I am worried on the current leadership, not on the cars or the brand Don't try to twist what i said to promote your agenda, i can see what you are trying to achieve Last, the problem of EV is specially their interface, nobody wants to drive their car and TOUCH a FLAT SCREEN, you want physical interfaces, and that's where Volkswagen excels at, and where the brand new american EVs fail at, including Tesla, they have a poor UX and a poor tactical/physical feedback, that's the proof of poor build quality, poor taste and lack of experience, which Volkswagen don't have, they just need better software, wich they want to solve by using android/iOS, and that's why i believe the "GERMAN" car industry is dying

okdood64 4y ago

What? BMW actually has a superior and far more usable infotainment system than Porsche, and they're public. I don't see your point. I agree Porsche doesn't need this, and their brand is more than fine as it is. But talking about the Teslafication of cars as it relates to being public or not is confusing to me.