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> Restaurants and bars can absolutely kick customers out for revealing [...] It depends. In general, no. Only if the "revealing" is harassing or disturbing oth

> Restaurants and bars can absolutely kick customers out for revealing [...] It depends. In general, no. Only if the "revealing" is harassing or disturbing other patrons. If you ask me, post sale, and I merely answer your question - definitely not.

shadowgovt 4y ago
IIUC, unless you can reference particular law that says they can't... In general, yes. It's private property and they control access to it. The default legal position is that a stranger can be removed from private property for any reason and no reason (including but not limited to: "We're closed," "You are disrupting my customers," "we have a dress / hygiene code and you violate it," and "You insulted my family at a dinner party last week and so your business is no longer welcome here. Ever.") There are some very specific, generally narrow carve-outs in the law to that otherwise-default policy (in particular, Title VII of the Civil Rights Act, and the Americans with Disabilities Act). The point is: we needed all these laws on the books because the default is right to refuse service. We didn't have to pass laws that said "A business may refuse service if etc. etc.". That was assumed. (The back-stop to this kind of behavior from a business is, in general, market competition; if there are enough people in town who want to talk about the ideas Hitler had with a nice, warm latte in hand, and Starbucks is telling them no, someone else opens a discourse-friendly coffee shop and gets that business. Or they end up going under because that business isn't enough to sustain a coffee shop and such talk drives away the remaining bulk of paying customers that could keep such a venture afloat. It's the American Dream in action.)
- LawTalkingGuy 4y ago
  > IIUC, unless you can reference particular law that says they can't. You're right, before sale or invitation to treat. After you invite me in and/or serve me you lose the right to eject me for a reasonable time. Casinos run into this with cheaters they ban. If they later give the person an invitation to the casino, for a promo perhaps, the banned person is allowed to assume it overrides the ban. The issue is that you're implicitly selling coffee AND a seat. If you don't say otherwise I have a right to both. If this was a hypothetical takeout-only restaurant I wouldn't have an expectation of a place to eat.

shadowgovt 4y ago

IIUC, unless you can reference particular law that says they can't... In general, yes. It's private property and they control access to it. The default legal position is that a stranger can be removed from private property for any reason and no reason (including but not limited to: "We're closed," "You are disrupting my customers," "we have a dress / hygiene code and you violate it," and "You insulted my family at a dinner party last week and so your business is no longer welcome here. Ever.") There are some very specific, generally narrow carve-outs in the law to that otherwise-default policy (in particular, Title VII of the Civil Rights Act, and the Americans with Disabilities Act). The point is: we needed all these laws on the books because the default is right to refuse service. We didn't have to pass laws that said "A business may refuse service if etc. etc.". That was assumed. (The back-stop to this kind of behavior from a business is, in general, market competition; if there are enough people in town who want to talk about the ideas Hitler had with a nice, warm latte in hand, and Starbucks is telling them no, someone else opens a discourse-friendly coffee shop and gets that business. Or they end up going under because that business isn't enough to sustain a coffee shop and such talk drives away the remaining bulk of paying customers that could keep such a venture afloat. It's the American Dream in action.)

LawTalkingGuy 4y ago
> IIUC, unless you can reference particular law that says they can't. You're right, before sale or invitation to treat. After you invite me in and/or serve me you lose the right to eject me for a reasonable time. Casinos run into this with cheaters they ban. If they later give the person an invitation to the casino, for a promo perhaps, the banned person is allowed to assume it overrides the ban. The issue is that you're implicitly selling coffee AND a seat. If you don't say otherwise I have a right to both. If this was a hypothetical takeout-only restaurant I wouldn't have an expectation of a place to eat.