6 ms·

is that any different than going to Disney World and having coke products shoved in your face?

matheusmoreira 4y ago
Of course. When I go to places like that, it's because I want to consume. When I go to a store, when I open the store app, it's because I want to see products. That's the whole point. In those cases, it's not advertising, it's information. The problem with computers today is you get advertised to no matter what you do. Can't boot goddamn Windows without it finding an excuse to show you stupid Taboola ads. Can't open a simple website without being literally flooded with ads all around the "content". This "content" is just an incidental abstraction, an arbitrary square on the screen that ads mold themselves around like parasites. It doesn't matter what the "content" is, it could be anything that draws in users, the real product is their attention being captured by the ads.
- grey_earthling 4y ago
  I describe this problem as misaligned purposes. You want to consume plastic stuff; Disney World wants to sell you plastic stuff; a magical time ensues. But you buy Windows because you want a useful OS; whereas Microsoft make Windows as a shop-front for their paid-for services; your purpose and the makers' purpose are misaligned, and you end up frustrated and annoyed that Windows isn't what you want it to be. Similarly, if a website's purpose is to make money (which is fair enough of course), but you're there because you want to read interesting stuff, that's a misaligned purpose and a frustrating time for you. Websites that exist primarily to show off interesting stuff tend not to tax the content-blocker so hard, because the author and audience's purposes are well-aligned. And community-governed OSes/distros tend not to push other services, because the purpose for making them genuinely is to be a useful OS (for their intended niche). My suggestion for what it's worth: choose tools and services where the maker's purpose for making it aligns with your purpose for using it.
  - matheusmoreira 4y ago
    > choose tools and services where the maker's purpose for making it aligns with your purpose for using it What if they don't exist anymore? Because not taking advantage of your users by advertising to them means leaving money on the table. Eventually some executive is gonna show up, notice that and demand that it be done because his compensation is directly tied to revenue growth or something.
    - grey_earthling 4y ago
      Yep. I'm saying: avoid things that exist primarily to make loads of money. Smaller, looser, less-commercial organisations have fewer or no executives, less concern with making as much money as possible, and (in my opinion) tend to produce less bullshit. This is distinct from producing good-quality work — their output may be unpolished, but it'll generally be sincere, and free of over-commercialised tat.
      - Eisenstein 4y ago
        Which ISP, phone company, or electrical utility company works like that? They don't, because we have (hopefully) regulated them. There is a point in which a product stops becoming a choice and starts becoming necessary to function. You could argue that operating systems are one of those things. Lets put some ideas together for regulation in these spheres.
howaboutnope 4y ago
An OS is not a destination, it's a medium if you will. A better comparison would be being blasted with ads no matter where you go.
TheCoelacanth 4y ago
Yes, because it's trivially easy to avoid going to Disney. To avoid all tech giants, you practically need to opt-out of modern society and become a hermit.

Of course. When I go to places like that, it's because I want to consume. When I go to a store, when I open the store app, it's because I want to see products. That's the whole point. In those cases, it's not advertising, it's information. The problem with computers today is you get advertised to no matter what you do. Can't boot goddamn Windows without it finding an excuse to show you stupid Taboola ads. Can't open a simple website without being literally flooded with ads all around the "content". This "content" is just an incidental abstraction, an arbitrary square on the screen that ads mold themselves around like parasites. It doesn't matter what the "content" is, it could be anything that draws in users, the real product is their attention being captured by the ads.

grey_earthling 4y ago
I describe this problem as misaligned purposes. You want to consume plastic stuff; Disney World wants to sell you plastic stuff; a magical time ensues. But you buy Windows because you want a useful OS; whereas Microsoft make Windows as a shop-front for their paid-for services; your purpose and the makers' purpose are misaligned, and you end up frustrated and annoyed that Windows isn't what you want it to be. Similarly, if a website's purpose is to make money (which is fair enough of course), but you're there because you want to read interesting stuff, that's a misaligned purpose and a frustrating time for you. Websites that exist primarily to show off interesting stuff tend not to tax the content-blocker so hard, because the author and audience's purposes are well-aligned. And community-governed OSes/distros tend not to push other services, because the purpose for making them genuinely is to be a useful OS (for their intended niche). My suggestion for what it's worth: choose tools and services where the maker's purpose for making it aligns with your purpose for using it.
- matheusmoreira 4y ago
  > choose tools and services where the maker's purpose for making it aligns with your purpose for using it What if they don't exist anymore? Because not taking advantage of your users by advertising to them means leaving money on the table. Eventually some executive is gonna show up, notice that and demand that it be done because his compensation is directly tied to revenue growth or something.
  - grey_earthling 4y ago
    Yep. I'm saying: avoid things that exist primarily to make loads of money. Smaller, looser, less-commercial organisations have fewer or no executives, less concern with making as much money as possible, and (in my opinion) tend to produce less bullshit. This is distinct from producing good-quality work — their output may be unpolished, but it'll generally be sincere, and free of over-commercialised tat.
    - Eisenstein 4y ago
      Which ISP, phone company, or electrical utility company works like that? They don't, because we have (hopefully) regulated them. There is a point in which a product stops becoming a choice and starts becoming necessary to function. You could argue that operating systems are one of those things. Lets put some ideas together for regulation in these spheres.

howaboutnope 4y ago

An OS is not a destination, it's a medium if you will. A better comparison would be being blasted with ads no matter where you go.

TheCoelacanth 4y ago

Yes, because it's trivially easy to avoid going to Disney. To avoid all tech giants, you practically need to opt-out of modern society and become a hermit.