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> But I'm talking about a general disrespect teachers have for parents. This is manifested in not wanting any input from parents, not wanting to hear from them

by mlyle 4y ago

> But I'm talking about a general disrespect teachers have for parents. This is manifested in not wanting any input from parents, not wanting to hear from them at PTA meetings, not consulting parents in any way shape or form about the curriculum. Teachers do want parents to volunteer, but only at their direction. No collaboration. It's easy to blame teachers for this, but in public schools generally greater than 100% of instructional time is already spoken for. Administrators and regulators are heaping requirements upon teachers to cover material. Then, because not enough time is allotted, the only option is to cover it badly and quickly. Also, because many teachers have inadequate planning and grading time, it gets really tempting to do what you did last year; veteran teachers tend to work >125% of contract hours already. I'm open to collaboration. Unlike most teachers, I have a lot of flexibility in how I run most of my classes. But AP Microeconomics? Pfft. I don't have the luxury of caring what your suggestions are about how I run that class. I have 34.5 equivalent-block-periods of material to cover in 35.5 equivalent-block-periods, and I'm sure there will be a fire drill or something that I need to reteach that will claim that buffer. This is just a snippet of the high level plan (lesson plans go into greater detail), showing how I'm forced to think about a class where there's explicit heavy curriculum requirements: https://i.imgur.com/YQk5LBP.png https://i.imgur.com/YQk5LBP.png > As for pencils and paper, pencils cost a few cents each, and the playgrounds of the schools I attended were littered with pencils. That's nice. You are still trying to shame someone who is making below a living wage to purchase it, and many other things, for other peoples' children.

WalterBright 4y ago
> I don't have the luxury of caring what your suggestions are about how I run that class You can't expect respect for that. (BTW, other teachers have told me their reason for not caring about parental input is they were trained professionals and parents were ignorant fools.) > You are still trying to shame someone who is making below a living wage to purchase it $4 to supply all your students with pencils. You brought up the pencil thing. Besides, you should move to Seattle where public schoolteachers make 6 figure salaries, have a pension for life, gold plated health insurance, and 2 months off per year.
- mlyle 4y ago
  > > I don't have the luxury of caring what your suggestions are about how I run that class > You can't expect respect for that. Rock vs. hard place? If I go off track in one of these classes where curriculum is tightly specified, quantitative indicators nosedive and I get crucified by parents. > Besides, you should move to Seattle where public schoolteachers make 6 figure salaries, have a pension for life, gold plated health insurance, and 2 months off per year. I make ~$59k/year for a 104% teaching load in the San Francisco Bay Area. Teaching my circuits class, I've bought a few hundred dollars in soldering irons and integrated circuits and breadboards for my classroom. The school borrows my old digital storage oscilloscope and other tools. I also end up pitying the robotics teams and buying them lots of stuff. I got rich in industry so this works OK for me, but... And yes, if I went and got a master's degree, I could make a bit more in public education, in exchange for a much worse classroom environment and lower level of respect. Still would be nowhere near the pay I could get elsewhere.
  - WalterBright 4y ago
    You should have said you bought electronic equipment for your students in the first place :-) I can respect that. I see that pencil trope all the time. In Seattle, they run a school supplies drive every year and pencils figure prominently on the donation list. This is a school system that spends $16,941 per student, and yet begs for $.05 pencils. "San Francisco Unified School District spends $17,464 per student each year" sez google. I infer your complaint is misdirected at the taxpayers, and should be with mis-spending by the school administrators.
    - mlyle 4y ago
      > I see that pencil trope all the time. In Seattle, they run a school supplies drive every year and pencils figure prominently on the donation list. This is a school system that spends $16,941 per student, and yet begs for $.05 pencils. Read actual teacher accounts of what they spend kitting out their classrooms. And yes, public school systems spend massive amounts per student, and then still expect charity from everyone: employees, parents, the community, etc, to fund normal operations and provide normal supplies. Your digs at mandated curriculum, how cheap the supplies are, etc... are really beside the point. They're like yelling at the front-line customer service rep who has no power to affect the things that concern you. Public school systems are often kafkaesque. Classrooms with 40 students; administration that externalize all problems to the teachers and refuse to address behavior problems; IEPs for 20 of those students mandating "preferential seating" and individualized teaching interventions. Curriculum that is garbage and overspends classroom time. Asking teachers to develop massive amounts of materials themselves. Or alternatively to only use provided material with no enrichment. Sometimes alternating between opposing harsh policy lines every few months. Yes, there's some moderately high comp'd teaching jobs out there (lol not mine) and some situations which fare better on respect and autonomy (like mine). But if it were such a sweet gig, we'd not have teachers leaving the field in droves and a shortage. [And the intrinsics of the job itself are wonderful-- teaching successfully feels great. You really have to try hard to screw it up to make teachers miserable, and that's what our society does].

by mlyle 4y ago

WalterBright 4y ago

> I don't have the luxury of caring what your suggestions are about how I run that class You can't expect respect for that. (BTW, other teachers have told me their reason for not caring about parental input is they were trained professionals and parents were ignorant fools.) > You are still trying to shame someone who is making below a living wage to purchase it $4 to supply all your students with pencils. You brought up the pencil thing. Besides, you should move to Seattle where public schoolteachers make 6 figure salaries, have a pension for life, gold plated health insurance, and 2 months off per year.

mlyle 4y ago
> > I don't have the luxury of caring what your suggestions are about how I run that class > You can't expect respect for that. Rock vs. hard place? If I go off track in one of these classes where curriculum is tightly specified, quantitative indicators nosedive and I get crucified by parents. > Besides, you should move to Seattle where public schoolteachers make 6 figure salaries, have a pension for life, gold plated health insurance, and 2 months off per year. I make ~$59k/year for a 104% teaching load in the San Francisco Bay Area. Teaching my circuits class, I've bought a few hundred dollars in soldering irons and integrated circuits and breadboards for my classroom. The school borrows my old digital storage oscilloscope and other tools. I also end up pitying the robotics teams and buying them lots of stuff. I got rich in industry so this works OK for me, but... And yes, if I went and got a master's degree, I could make a bit more in public education, in exchange for a much worse classroom environment and lower level of respect. Still would be nowhere near the pay I could get elsewhere.
- WalterBright 4y ago
  You should have said you bought electronic equipment for your students in the first place :-) I can respect that. I see that pencil trope all the time. In Seattle, they run a school supplies drive every year and pencils figure prominently on the donation list. This is a school system that spends $16,941 per student, and yet begs for $.05 pencils. "San Francisco Unified School District spends $17,464 per student each year" sez google. I infer your complaint is misdirected at the taxpayers, and should be with mis-spending by the school administrators.
  - mlyle 4y ago
    > I see that pencil trope all the time. In Seattle, they run a school supplies drive every year and pencils figure prominently on the donation list. This is a school system that spends $16,941 per student, and yet begs for $.05 pencils. Read actual teacher accounts of what they spend kitting out their classrooms. And yes, public school systems spend massive amounts per student, and then still expect charity from everyone: employees, parents, the community, etc, to fund normal operations and provide normal supplies. Your digs at mandated curriculum, how cheap the supplies are, etc... are really beside the point. They're like yelling at the front-line customer service rep who has no power to affect the things that concern you. Public school systems are often kafkaesque. Classrooms with 40 students; administration that externalize all problems to the teachers and refuse to address behavior problems; IEPs for 20 of those students mandating "preferential seating" and individualized teaching interventions. Curriculum that is garbage and overspends classroom time. Asking teachers to develop massive amounts of materials themselves. Or alternatively to only use provided material with no enrichment. Sometimes alternating between opposing harsh policy lines every few months. Yes, there's some moderately high comp'd teaching jobs out there (lol not mine) and some situations which fare better on respect and autonomy (like mine). But if it were such a sweet gig, we'd not have teachers leaving the field in droves and a shortage. [And the intrinsics of the job itself are wonderful-- teaching successfully feels great. You really have to try hard to screw it up to make teachers miserable, and that's what our society does].