3 ms·

Re the timing, yes, I agree. But, remarkably, it was still on sale for a long time. I think I obtained an eval or review copy of it at some point, but I didn't

Re the timing, yes, I agree. But, remarkably, it was still on sale for a long time. I think I obtained an eval or review copy of it at some point, but I didn't really know what to do with it -- my ST experience is fairly minimal. :-( I suspect, but do not know, that part of what killed it might have been the Mac OS X migration to Intel (and around the same time, Windows' move to 64-bit). I think MagiC ran on PowerMacs and used some of the OS's 68K-to-PowerPC translation somehow, but that stopped working after Snow Leopard. I didn't know what it was written in, but I can say I'm not shocked. ;-)

cmrdporcupine 4y ago
I was kind of hoping maybe there'd be stuff in their VDI implementation that the EmuTOS people could maybe work from to maybe improve some VDI performance or flexibility. But I don't think it got on anybody's radar. Now you have me browsing through their VDI sources, damn you! https://gitlab.com/AndreasK/Atari-Mac-MagiC-Sources/-/tree/master/MagiC/KERNEL/VDI https://gitlab.com/AndreasK/Atari-Mac-MagiC-Sources/-/tree/m... :-) And yes, I believe MagiC naturally didn't survive the transition from PowerPC to x86. I'm surprised it survived 68k to PowerPC, TBH. I never used MagiC back in the day, it came after my Atari days were over. But I've played with it since and it's really quite impressive. Definitely an imaginable alternative Atari timeline there.
- lproven 4y ago
  :-) AIUI, AFROS more or less came about because there were multiple competing replacements for various bits of the GEM stack: AES, VDI, desktop, etc. (Mostly from the German market, AFAICT. I am not sure why.) One of the differentiators between these became that some were or went FOSS. Eventually, there were FOSS components for more or less all of TOS+GEM, so a new focus came into being: replace the handful of missing parts, so that an entire OS from bootloader to desktop, could be built from free software. Again, this is only AIUI as an external spectator. When ARANYM and other FOSS emulators came along, they needed at least some ROM firmware to start the soft-loaded all-FOSS replacement OS. IIRC that was the genesis of EmuTOS. An alternate market to the FOSS stuff and the various commercial replacements to make your ST go faster, was a commercial whole-stack replacement. I think there were several of those, too, but MagiC was the only one I know of that actively chased users on other platforms once the supply of new Atari kit dried up. Aside from this: a friend on Twitter is very upset that this OS they disliked so much is still around, a bit like some posters here. I'm amazed at the residual hatred for this OS after over a third of a century. It really saddens me. Some people clearly love it. I think in a way -- maybe I am reaching too far here -- but ISTM it says something positive about a software platform if it inspires such strong feelings. It makes me think of Vi and Emacs. I cordially detest both. Many people love one and hate the other. I make my living from xNix, but I don't actually like it much. Never did. I'm not a programmer; much of why programmers love xNix just gets in my way. There were other, non-xNix-like OSes that were much more pleasant to use. I loved RISC OS back in the day, but while I still have it running now, I don't have much use for it in 2022. I loved classic MacOS, too. I must try to get my two old gigahertz-class G4 Macs running again so I can run the revived edition of MacOS 9 that can run on late-era OS-X-only G4s. At least I could do some paying work on that. I have an Amiga, and I respect AmigaOS, but it is hard work trying to use modern Amiga-like systems in the 21st century when you didn't really know it back in its prime. I have repeatedly tried to get AROS running on bare metal with no joy. I did get MorphOS onto on my Mac Mini G4 in the end, but my word that was hard work, involving multiple preparatory steps with Classic and OS X and Ubuntu PowerPC. Yes, the Amiga was more capable, but Amiga enthusiasts don't get that the price of greater capabilities is greater complexity, and that's off-putting. Maybe TOS appeals to people because it's so much simpler? And because in some ways it's DOS-like, and that's familiar too? And maybe that's why this modular re-creation exists?

cmrdporcupine 4y ago

I was kind of hoping maybe there'd be stuff in their VDI implementation that the EmuTOS people could maybe work from to maybe improve some VDI performance or flexibility. But I don't think it got on anybody's radar. Now you have me browsing through their VDI sources, damn you! https://gitlab.com/AndreasK/Atari-Mac-MagiC-Sources/-/tree/master/MagiC/KERNEL/VDI https://gitlab.com/AndreasK/Atari-Mac-MagiC-Sources/-/tree/m... :-) And yes, I believe MagiC naturally didn't survive the transition from PowerPC to x86. I'm surprised it survived 68k to PowerPC, TBH. I never used MagiC back in the day, it came after my Atari days were over. But I've played with it since and it's really quite impressive. Definitely an imaginable alternative Atari timeline there.

lproven 4y ago
:-) AIUI, AFROS more or less came about because there were multiple competing replacements for various bits of the GEM stack: AES, VDI, desktop, etc. (Mostly from the German market, AFAICT. I am not sure why.) One of the differentiators between these became that some were or went FOSS. Eventually, there were FOSS components for more or less all of TOS+GEM, so a new focus came into being: replace the handful of missing parts, so that an entire OS from bootloader to desktop, could be built from free software. Again, this is only AIUI as an external spectator. When ARANYM and other FOSS emulators came along, they needed at least some ROM firmware to start the soft-loaded all-FOSS replacement OS. IIRC that was the genesis of EmuTOS. An alternate market to the FOSS stuff and the various commercial replacements to make your ST go faster, was a commercial whole-stack replacement. I think there were several of those, too, but MagiC was the only one I know of that actively chased users on other platforms once the supply of new Atari kit dried up. Aside from this: a friend on Twitter is very upset that this OS they disliked so much is still around, a bit like some posters here. I'm amazed at the residual hatred for this OS after over a third of a century. It really saddens me. Some people clearly love it. I think in a way -- maybe I am reaching too far here -- but ISTM it says something positive about a software platform if it inspires such strong feelings. It makes me think of Vi and Emacs. I cordially detest both. Many people love one and hate the other. I make my living from xNix, but I don't actually like it much. Never did. I'm not a programmer; much of why programmers love xNix just gets in my way. There were other, non-xNix-like OSes that were much more pleasant to use. I loved RISC OS back in the day, but while I still have it running now, I don't have much use for it in 2022. I loved classic MacOS, too. I must try to get my two old gigahertz-class G4 Macs running again so I can run the revived edition of MacOS 9 that can run on late-era OS-X-only G4s. At least I could do some paying work on that. I have an Amiga, and I respect AmigaOS, but it is hard work trying to use modern Amiga-like systems in the 21st century when you didn't really know it back in its prime. I have repeatedly tried to get AROS running on bare metal with no joy. I did get MorphOS onto on my Mac Mini G4 in the end, but my word that was hard work, involving multiple preparatory steps with Classic and OS X and Ubuntu PowerPC. Yes, the Amiga was more capable, but Amiga enthusiasts don't get that the price of greater capabilities is greater complexity, and that's off-putting. Maybe TOS appeals to people because it's so much simpler? And because in some ways it's DOS-like, and that's familiar too? And maybe that's why this modular re-creation exists?