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Will laws be put in place ahead of this tech to prevent private industry, state and federal governments from abusing this system? e.g. - Auto-deducting money

Will laws be put in place ahead of this tech to prevent private industry, state and federal governments from abusing this system? e.g. - Auto-deducting money from someones wallet for infractions a minor crimes such as jaywalking detected by facial recognition? - Locking someones wallet if they say something that upsets the government? - Limiting access to the wallet for specific services if the persons social credit score is too low? this may also be in the works - Protecting transactions from government agencies snooping without a warrant? - Protecting transactions from private industries harvesting and machine learning behavior? This is already done with credit and debit cards. A centralized digital dollar could in theory track the same data for cash transactions. This data does exist but is harder to gather into a centralized database today. Are there laws on the books today that would protect people from these and other use cases? I ask in good faith because I know that people will do what people can do. I believe this question is important. Implemented without proper protections can weaken faith in the system and the IRS stand to lose a lot of money.

pjkundert 4y ago
These are features, not bugs.
jqpabc123 4y ago
Thanks for this laundry list of conspiracy, fear, uncertainty and doubt. Central bank digital currencies differ from existing digital money available to the general public, such as the balance in a bank account, because they would be a direct liability of the Federal Reserve, not a commercial bank. As far as the public is concerned, the only change will be faster transaction processing and new capabilities being offered by your bank --- such as transferring funds to friends/family from your banking web site/app in real time while sitting at the dinner table. All purchases will continue to be made in good ole US dollars and all accounts will remain with your commercial bank of choice and subject to existing laws. Basically, this will facilitate interbank transfers in order to provide a much needed update to the aging and slow ACH system which was designed for the paper check era. No banks will be killed in the creation of a CBDC.
- Bubble_Pop_22 4y ago
  > Central bank digital currencies differ from existing digital money available to the general public, such as the balance in a bank account, because they would be a direct liability of the Federal Reserve, not a commercial bank. Semantics. People want to know their savings are guaranteed and they can't possibly be lost. The FDIC does just that. The public doesn't care if the ultimate grantor is the Fed or the Congress or the Senate. And I think rightfully so because in the end the ultimate grantors securing Americans savings are always and in any event 3 entities: 1) the U.S. Army 2) taxpayers alive now 3) future generations of taxpayers. This digital dollar or digital euro is something that nobody asked for and nobody wants. At least with crypto you can argue that they fill the role of online casino in disguise. Which isn't really productive but at least there are people who actually flock to it.
  - jqpabc123 4y ago
    This digital dollar or digital euro is something that nobody asked for and nobody wants. Digital dollars are what most people use every day --- credit and debit cards. When was the last time you paid with actual paper cash? The only difference with a CBDC in place will be faster processing and lower costs due to realtime interbank transfers that are currently only available from 8AM until 5 PM on weekdays --- weekends and holidays excluded.
    - LinuxBender 4y ago
      When was the last time you paid with actual paper cash? I almost exclusively use cash. The exception is for the few things that local stores do not provide and for car insurance. I will remedy some of that soon e.g. Surety Bond. Even then I can still use cash to pay a local transport vendor to drive into a bigger town a few hours away and pick things up for me.
      - jqpabc123 4y ago
        You are the exception rather than the rule. But the good news is, you won't be affected at all. No one is proposing to eliminate the use of physical cash. Nothing about a CBDC requires cash to be eliminated. Any claims to the contrary are pure FUD.
Mountain_Skies 4y ago
The fox won't willingly give up the ability to be in charge of the henhouse. The only prayer one has to keep this from being abused constantly and on a widescale is for there to be a Constitutional amendment specifically addressing the issue and limiting the government's power in this area. Anything less will be subject to change and weakening by Congress and the various state legislatures. Unfortunately, the country is far too fractured to come together in the required numbers to pass such an amendment. Once one "side" comes out in support, the other will reflexively come out against it. The only exception is if they both have agreed on how to neuter it into being useless for protecting the people.
- jqpabc123 4y ago
  There is no new potential for abuse here. All the much feared and ballyhooed capabilities already exist. The process of denying someone access to their account in a bank will follow the existing trajectory.
  - sokoloff 4y ago
    A lot of people can manage to live their life using cash today and no one can stop them from using cash. This has a few bugs, but is overwhelmingly a feature.
    - jqpabc123 4y ago
      Good for them. No one is trying to stop anyone from using cash. But the 19th century doesn't work for everyone.
      - tarboreus 4y ago
        You're staring at a story that is doing exactly that. You really think they'll have cash within 10 years of implementing this?
        jqpabc123 4y ago
imglorp 4y ago
I think controllable currency is strongly in the interests of both corporate and government bodies for all these reasons. There's no counteracting force here representing the interest of the citizens and users. This is why it's inevitable.
- progrus 4y ago
  The counteracting force is Bitcoin, Ethereum, Monero, Zcash, Tornado Cash, etc. Wake up.
  - starkd 4y ago
    Another counteracting force is people rising up against a CBDC. First, voting against any elected official that wants it. Second, by refusing to use it.
    - imglorp 4y ago
      Retailers are already not thrilled handling paper money. If government pressures them to drop it, and the digital currency has no fees they need to eat, paper will be gone quickly. Voters have minimal voice compared to corporate lobbies.
      - hellojesus 4y ago
        It would be possible to open your own store then, to sell goods to people for cash. It'll cost more to not be tracked by the gov, but the incremental cost buys you privacy.
      - starkd 4y ago
        It's one way to fight back. This could also spawn middle men, who will trade in the digital currency and sell for cash, thereby avoiding surveillance. But if there is a hill to die on, this is it.
starkd 4y ago
I think the only way to ensure these protections is that the digital currency has the ability to do 3rd party transactions through decentralized payments. Even a constitutional amendment is not enough to protect the consumer. The information made available through digital transactions is likely to be abused in some manner.
HideousKojima 4y ago
>Will laws be put in place ahead of this tech to prevent private industry, state and federal governments from abusing this system? Laws won't stop them. See, for example, the laws preventing the ATF from creating digital databases of gun ownership records and the multiple instances of them violating this law without consequence.

pjkundert 4y ago

These are features, not bugs.

jqpabc123 4y ago

Thanks for this laundry list of conspiracy, fear, uncertainty and doubt. Central bank digital currencies differ from existing digital money available to the general public, such as the balance in a bank account, because they would be a direct liability of the Federal Reserve, not a commercial bank. As far as the public is concerned, the only change will be faster transaction processing and new capabilities being offered by your bank --- such as transferring funds to friends/family from your banking web site/app in real time while sitting at the dinner table. All purchases will continue to be made in good ole US dollars and all accounts will remain with your commercial bank of choice and subject to existing laws. Basically, this will facilitate interbank transfers in order to provide a much needed update to the aging and slow ACH system which was designed for the paper check era. No banks will be killed in the creation of a CBDC.

Bubble_Pop_22 4y ago
> Central bank digital currencies differ from existing digital money available to the general public, such as the balance in a bank account, because they would be a direct liability of the Federal Reserve, not a commercial bank. Semantics. People want to know their savings are guaranteed and they can't possibly be lost. The FDIC does just that. The public doesn't care if the ultimate grantor is the Fed or the Congress or the Senate. And I think rightfully so because in the end the ultimate grantors securing Americans savings are always and in any event 3 entities: 1) the U.S. Army 2) taxpayers alive now 3) future generations of taxpayers. This digital dollar or digital euro is something that nobody asked for and nobody wants. At least with crypto you can argue that they fill the role of online casino in disguise. Which isn't really productive but at least there are people who actually flock to it.
- jqpabc123 4y ago
  This digital dollar or digital euro is something that nobody asked for and nobody wants. Digital dollars are what most people use every day --- credit and debit cards. When was the last time you paid with actual paper cash? The only difference with a CBDC in place will be faster processing and lower costs due to realtime interbank transfers that are currently only available from 8AM until 5 PM on weekdays --- weekends and holidays excluded.
  - LinuxBender 4y ago
    When was the last time you paid with actual paper cash? I almost exclusively use cash. The exception is for the few things that local stores do not provide and for car insurance. I will remedy some of that soon e.g. Surety Bond. Even then I can still use cash to pay a local transport vendor to drive into a bigger town a few hours away and pick things up for me.
    - jqpabc123 4y ago
      You are the exception rather than the rule. But the good news is, you won't be affected at all. No one is proposing to eliminate the use of physical cash. Nothing about a CBDC requires cash to be eliminated. Any claims to the contrary are pure FUD.

Mountain_Skies 4y ago

The fox won't willingly give up the ability to be in charge of the henhouse. The only prayer one has to keep this from being abused constantly and on a widescale is for there to be a Constitutional amendment specifically addressing the issue and limiting the government's power in this area. Anything less will be subject to change and weakening by Congress and the various state legislatures. Unfortunately, the country is far too fractured to come together in the required numbers to pass such an amendment. Once one "side" comes out in support, the other will reflexively come out against it. The only exception is if they both have agreed on how to neuter it into being useless for protecting the people.

jqpabc123 4y ago
There is no new potential for abuse here. All the much feared and ballyhooed capabilities already exist. The process of denying someone access to their account in a bank will follow the existing trajectory.
- sokoloff 4y ago
  A lot of people can manage to live their life using cash today and no one can stop them from using cash. This has a few bugs, but is overwhelmingly a feature.
  - jqpabc123 4y ago
    Good for them. No one is trying to stop anyone from using cash. But the 19th century doesn't work for everyone.
    - tarboreus 4y ago
      You're staring at a story that is doing exactly that. You really think they'll have cash within 10 years of implementing this?
      - jqpabc123 4y ago

imglorp 4y ago

I think controllable currency is strongly in the interests of both corporate and government bodies for all these reasons. There's no counteracting force here representing the interest of the citizens and users. This is why it's inevitable.

progrus 4y ago
The counteracting force is Bitcoin, Ethereum, Monero, Zcash, Tornado Cash, etc. Wake up.
- starkd 4y ago
  Another counteracting force is people rising up against a CBDC. First, voting against any elected official that wants it. Second, by refusing to use it.
  - imglorp 4y ago
    Retailers are already not thrilled handling paper money. If government pressures them to drop it, and the digital currency has no fees they need to eat, paper will be gone quickly. Voters have minimal voice compared to corporate lobbies.
    - hellojesus 4y ago
      It would be possible to open your own store then, to sell goods to people for cash. It'll cost more to not be tracked by the gov, but the incremental cost buys you privacy.
    - starkd 4y ago
      It's one way to fight back. This could also spawn middle men, who will trade in the digital currency and sell for cash, thereby avoiding surveillance. But if there is a hill to die on, this is it.

starkd 4y ago

I think the only way to ensure these protections is that the digital currency has the ability to do 3rd party transactions through decentralized payments. Even a constitutional amendment is not enough to protect the consumer. The information made available through digital transactions is likely to be abused in some manner.

HideousKojima 4y ago

>Will laws be put in place ahead of this tech to prevent private industry, state and federal governments from abusing this system? Laws won't stop them. See, for example, the laws preventing the ATF from creating digital databases of gun ownership records and the multiple instances of them violating this law without consequence.