4 ms·

Russian Trolls Helped Keep the Women’s March Out of Lock Step

11 points by jasonhansel 4y ago

moistly 4y ago
It is disappointing to see plainly stupid denial of the reality of Russian (and other) disinformation and influence campaigns in these threads.
sn0w_crash 4y ago
It’s interesting how in the media Russia is simultaneously portrayed as incompetent and incapable but yet also behind every failed major event, election, political movement, and even bad movie review. I don’t know how to reconcile these things.
- rini17 4y ago
  With public influencing of the destructive kind, you have million tries and no competences are needed. Just keep pumping sewage via all communication channels for years till something catches on. In war you have one try and you must be competent to achieve anything. There's also the option that incumbent US anti-feminist forces are using Russia as convenient scapegoat.
  - sn0w_crash 4y ago
    “Anti-feminist forces” ?? Ok
    - rini17 4y ago
      Not living in the US, but I'm sure there are some. There are some reasons why the march took place no?
  - BMc2020 4y ago
    Just keep pumping sewage via all communication channels Very accurate, I've also heard it called "flood the zone with nonsense". There was a recent FBI raid where every possible exculpatory thing that could be claimed, was claimed by the usual suspects. Even when those claims contradict each other or what was claimed yesterday. The goal is to muddy the water so it doesn't need to be consistent.
- bediger4000 4y ago
  The youth of today don't remember the Cold War. What you describe was standard practice from say, 1950 until 1995. The Commies were invincible, yet weakened by false ideology, infinite in number, but always needing more converts, dangerously industrial, yet forced to copy US designs. This is merely a common propaganda practice. Don't give it more significance than it deserves.
h2odragon 4y ago
Russian advertising efforts get so much more results than anyone else's; seems like we should be examining the techniques in more detail for use in our own marketing efforts. It's amazing how infrequently they use their miraculous powers. If they can shape public opinion so effectively then how is it they've used that power on things like this but not on sanctions or border disputes?
- DoItToMe81 4y ago
  If the country that can barely run its own army or collect taxes somehow can mastermind every trolling and propaganda campaign on Earth, I have to wonder how much more the US logically must do. Maybe this article was written by Washington trolls and bots?
  - BMc2020 4y ago
    It makes the days of planting favorable newspaper articles seem quaint. However, the Russians have been fomenting revolution almost 100 years now, they are very good at it. But this article is from the NYT so it won't be by trolls and bots. NYT is way up in the political influence sphere. The Sulzbergers were thoroughly compromised long before the internet came along. They get to keep their power and influence as long as they color inside the lines, and also they enjoy the not insignificant protection of the US Government. TL:DR; A Game of Thrones was a documentary.
beardyw 4y ago
https://archive.ph/4YIBc https://archive.ph/4YIBc
RestlessMind 4y ago
I suspect there are a lot of Russian (and Chinese and CIA and ...) trolls on HN as well. While dang and the overall community holds a decent bar, it is too easy to slip into flamewars. I wonder if a right solution here is to have fully de-anonymized forums, at least for a majority of topics. I know that anonymity is important for activists against tyrannies. But do we need that everywhere? I have seen that conversations are much more polite when everyone knows the identity of the speaker. People tend to self-moderate when they know that their reputation is at stake. And maybe that's a good thing for many topics (certainly not all).
- ls15 4y ago
  > I have seen that conversations are much more polite when everyone knows the identity of the speaker. I have seen that it does not make a difference, but clear name enforcement puts people under surveillance and in danger. I also locks out those who cannot or do not want to provide their clear name - on top of all the hassle that comes with verifying all those names.
  - RestlessMind 4y ago
    > I have seen that it does not make a difference Maybe we just live in different circles then. > on top of all the hassle that comes with verifying all those names. We have solved that problem for online banking which adheres to all the KYC/AML regulations. There are companies which offer KYC-as-a-Service. So no more hassle to verify someone's identity.

11 points by jasonhansel 4y ago

It is disappointing to see plainly stupid denial of the reality of Russian (and other) disinformation and influence campaigns in these threads.

sn0w_crash 4y ago

It’s interesting how in the media Russia is simultaneously portrayed as incompetent and incapable but yet also behind every failed major event, election, political movement, and even bad movie review. I don’t know how to reconcile these things.

rini17 4y ago
With public influencing of the destructive kind, you have million tries and no competences are needed. Just keep pumping sewage via all communication channels for years till something catches on. In war you have one try and you must be competent to achieve anything. There's also the option that incumbent US anti-feminist forces are using Russia as convenient scapegoat.
- sn0w_crash 4y ago
  “Anti-feminist forces” ?? Ok
  - rini17 4y ago
    Not living in the US, but I'm sure there are some. There are some reasons why the march took place no?
- BMc2020 4y ago
  Just keep pumping sewage via all communication channels Very accurate, I've also heard it called "flood the zone with nonsense". There was a recent FBI raid where every possible exculpatory thing that could be claimed, was claimed by the usual suspects. Even when those claims contradict each other or what was claimed yesterday. The goal is to muddy the water so it doesn't need to be consistent.
bediger4000 4y ago
The youth of today don't remember the Cold War. What you describe was standard practice from say, 1950 until 1995. The Commies were invincible, yet weakened by false ideology, infinite in number, but always needing more converts, dangerously industrial, yet forced to copy US designs. This is merely a common propaganda practice. Don't give it more significance than it deserves.

h2odragon 4y ago

Russian advertising efforts get so much more results than anyone else's; seems like we should be examining the techniques in more detail for use in our own marketing efforts. It's amazing how infrequently they use their miraculous powers. If they can shape public opinion so effectively then how is it they've used that power on things like this but not on sanctions or border disputes?

DoItToMe81 4y ago
If the country that can barely run its own army or collect taxes somehow can mastermind every trolling and propaganda campaign on Earth, I have to wonder how much more the US logically must do. Maybe this article was written by Washington trolls and bots?
- BMc2020 4y ago
  It makes the days of planting favorable newspaper articles seem quaint. However, the Russians have been fomenting revolution almost 100 years now, they are very good at it. But this article is from the NYT so it won't be by trolls and bots. NYT is way up in the political influence sphere. The Sulzbergers were thoroughly compromised long before the internet came along. They get to keep their power and influence as long as they color inside the lines, and also they enjoy the not insignificant protection of the US Government. TL:DR; A Game of Thrones was a documentary.

beardyw 4y ago

https://archive.ph/4YIBc https://archive.ph/4YIBc

RestlessMind 4y ago

I suspect there are a lot of Russian (and Chinese and CIA and ...) trolls on HN as well. While dang and the overall community holds a decent bar, it is too easy to slip into flamewars. I wonder if a right solution here is to have fully de-anonymized forums, at least for a majority of topics. I know that anonymity is important for activists against tyrannies. But do we need that everywhere? I have seen that conversations are much more polite when everyone knows the identity of the speaker. People tend to self-moderate when they know that their reputation is at stake. And maybe that's a good thing for many topics (certainly not all).

ls15 4y ago
> I have seen that conversations are much more polite when everyone knows the identity of the speaker. I have seen that it does not make a difference, but clear name enforcement puts people under surveillance and in danger. I also locks out those who cannot or do not want to provide their clear name - on top of all the hassle that comes with verifying all those names.
- RestlessMind 4y ago
  > I have seen that it does not make a difference Maybe we just live in different circles then. > on top of all the hassle that comes with verifying all those names. We have solved that problem for online banking which adheres to all the KYC/AML regulations. There are companies which offer KYC-as-a-Service. So no more hassle to verify someone's identity.