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Not really an argument? The C/C++ ecosystem is so well established that even today you don't have a choice in a lot of contexts. If that doesn't show the power

Not really an argument? The C/C++ ecosystem is so well established that even today you don't have a choice in a lot of contexts. If that doesn't show the power of a language, I don't know what can. I don't really think the community is toxic or unwelcoming, more like people are too used to ctrl+c ctrl+v their way out of problems. Nothing against that, I'm the same way, but it really is a matter of taking your time with the language. I've honestly learned to applaud most rust fanatics because of this, at least they are passionate about learning athe language inside/out.

throwaway894345 4y ago
Where is C++ the only choice? Gamedev seems like the closest—as far as I know, most AAA games aren’t using C, but I think maybe many are using C# via Unity (I’m not familiar with the gamedev space)? In the embedded world, C still reigns supreme. Maybe in the world of high frequency trading? But these seem to be fewer and fewer and Rust seems increasingly likely to be a contender in these domains.
- cyber_kinetist 4y ago
  Game engines are one example, there isn't a robust-enough language other than C++ that has the ability to build some powerful abstractions while also giving you the tools to manage hardware more directly. Note that Unity uses C# as a scripting language, but under the hood the core engine is all in C++.
  - pjmlp 4y ago
    Under the hood some of that C++ code is now the C# subset used by the Burst compiler.
- spookie 4y ago
  Drivers, data driven system that have higher performance standards, medical imagery, military components heavily employ Ada mixed with C++ interfaces.
  - throwaway894345 4y ago
    I agree that these things all use C++, but the parent’s claim was that there are areas (industries?) where C++ has no alternatives. Drivers and high performance systems can all make use of C, Rust, Ada, etc as well as C++ depending on requirements.
    - spookie 4y ago
      I'm sorry, but Rust still has ways to go before established industries believe on it enough to drop C/C++. I use C/C++ interchangeably, since extending an existing C codebase won't be a problem. Most aren't willing to go as far as Ada either, the reason why that even in military endeavors, C/C++ is used as a more familiar "face". I think it's pretty easy to forget the foothold these languages have, and their flexibility. We all have seen the perseverance of COBOL.
      - throwaway894345 4y ago
        My original comment specifically said that older languages have staying power, and that Rust will have to mature a bit to become the language of choice for new projects in these niches. But even still, I wasn’t talking about dropping C++ for Rust—I only mentioned Rust as an alternate option.
        spookie 4y ago
        No problem, I just don't consider it as an alternative for the aforementioned concerns. Nonetheless, I wasn't trying to point fingers at Rust, more of a pragmatic approach to modernizing a code infrastructure. I hope Rust does well.
0x457 4y ago
Horse and carriages had a well established ecosystem. We don't use that for moving people and goods anymore. Being old isn't a superpower. That said, I don't see C++ replaced in certain areas for loooong time.
- spookie 4y ago
  Yeah, it'll surely fade out given time. It's certainly not a perfect language.

throwaway894345 4y ago

Where is C++ the only choice? Gamedev seems like the closest—as far as I know, most AAA games aren’t using C, but I think maybe many are using C# via Unity (I’m not familiar with the gamedev space)? In the embedded world, C still reigns supreme. Maybe in the world of high frequency trading? But these seem to be fewer and fewer and Rust seems increasingly likely to be a contender in these domains.

cyber_kinetist 4y ago
Game engines are one example, there isn't a robust-enough language other than C++ that has the ability to build some powerful abstractions while also giving you the tools to manage hardware more directly. Note that Unity uses C# as a scripting language, but under the hood the core engine is all in C++.
- pjmlp 4y ago
  Under the hood some of that C++ code is now the C# subset used by the Burst compiler.
spookie 4y ago
Drivers, data driven system that have higher performance standards, medical imagery, military components heavily employ Ada mixed with C++ interfaces.
- throwaway894345 4y ago
  I agree that these things all use C++, but the parent’s claim was that there are areas (industries?) where C++ has no alternatives. Drivers and high performance systems can all make use of C, Rust, Ada, etc as well as C++ depending on requirements.
  - spookie 4y ago
    I'm sorry, but Rust still has ways to go before established industries believe on it enough to drop C/C++. I use C/C++ interchangeably, since extending an existing C codebase won't be a problem. Most aren't willing to go as far as Ada either, the reason why that even in military endeavors, C/C++ is used as a more familiar "face". I think it's pretty easy to forget the foothold these languages have, and their flexibility. We all have seen the perseverance of COBOL.
    - throwaway894345 4y ago
      My original comment specifically said that older languages have staying power, and that Rust will have to mature a bit to become the language of choice for new projects in these niches. But even still, I wasn’t talking about dropping C++ for Rust—I only mentioned Rust as an alternate option.
      - spookie 4y ago
        No problem, I just don't consider it as an alternative for the aforementioned concerns. Nonetheless, I wasn't trying to point fingers at Rust, more of a pragmatic approach to modernizing a code infrastructure. I hope Rust does well.

0x457 4y ago

Horse and carriages had a well established ecosystem. We don't use that for moving people and goods anymore. Being old isn't a superpower. That said, I don't see C++ replaced in certain areas for loooong time.

spookie 4y ago
Yeah, it'll surely fade out given time. It's certainly not a perfect language.