7 ms·

The fact that there's a claimed generational gap here speaks more to the values of the generations re: passive vs active entertainment. I could also ask: "Why d

The fact that there's a claimed generational gap here speaks more to the values of the generations re: passive vs active entertainment. I could also ask: "Why do all these 60-Somethings have the TV on as background noise while doing other tasks?" To me it seems closed-caption usage is correlated with actually paying attention to television consumption. People who have their TV on at all hours, as background entertainment to support their lifestyle, tend to not use CC. Why should they? The words literally don't matter, it's just an aesthetic. People who actually desire an immersive experience, who deliberately pay attention to the shows they watch, tend to care about CC since it complements the audio & visual nicely. I don't have any evidence for this but I'd wager that plot synthesis and comprehension of television shows is greatly improved by CC. Or maybe it's that people who use CC tend to value and perform better at synthesis and comprehension? Regardless of causality, CC seems related to an individual's desire for more active entertainment.

pedalpete 4y ago
I agree, but also find it surprising that younger generations are more focused on what they are watching. I'm a background watcher for sure, and this trend with CC suggests to me that the whole "2nd screen" thing isn't playing with the younger generation. Any insights as to why that may be? To give more context, I was always a "background media" person. Even as a kid I'd draw while in front of the TV, I was never a focused participant.
- kuschku 4y ago
  Because the younger generation is watching Netflix on their phones. There is no second screen phenomenon because there is no second screen.
- nicolas_t 4y ago
  I use CC even in my native language especially when I background watch. It's easy to work while watching a tv show (only works with relatively boring work) if I know I can quickly glance at the subtitles if I missed anything.
  - sph 4y ago
    What kind of work can you do while watching? You're just doing two things badly. Unless you mean physical work that doesn't engage the mind like cleaning or doing the dishes?
    - nicolas_t 4y ago
      Work that's mind numbingly easy to do... Anything that I know exactly how to solve but need to just spend the time implementing.
- camoufleur 4y ago
  With television you turn it on and there are a few mediocre choices you can tune out. On streaming platforms you have to specifically select a program to watch. When Gen Z watches/listens to something in the background it's much more likely to be a long YouTube video or a podcast.
mensetmanusman 4y ago
I die on the inside when I go into houses with multiple TVs on in the background as noise.
bscphil 4y ago
> [CC] complements the audio & visual nicely. I don't have any evidence for this but I'd wager that plot synthesis and comprehension of television shows is greatly improved by CC As you say, you don't have any evidence for this, so I'll just add that my subjective impression is the absolute opposite. I find it impossible to concentrate on what is happening visually on screen in a film when closed captions are on. I associate CC with the one place I ever see them - at the laundromat, where they are always on because you can't hear the TV clearly above the background noise. Hard to think of a setting where "background entertainment" is a better descriptor.
- Entinel 4y ago
  I grew up watching anime with subs and at a certain point it just became natural to have subtitles on even when the content is in English.
  - CoastalCoder 4y ago
    For the longest time I couldn't follow anime with subtitles, it kept me from watching the action. I think practice helped, but so did reducing the size of the video frame. Turns out having the whole frame in my field of view was a big deal.
    - dylan604 4y ago
      Depending on the title you're watching, the subs are easier to read. Like one of the episodes from DBZ. Goku: AHHHHHH! Vegeta: ARGHHHH! Goku: OOOMPH!!! Vegta: HMMMMM! The visuals were just as simple. For like most of the episode
    - PuppyTailWags 4y ago
      I think it depends on your reading speed and ability to skim. If you can read faster than people can talk, subtitles aren't really distracting because you can glance down and then go back to reading the visual expressions and background details of the dialogue.
- 4y ago
Spooky23 4y ago
They mix sound differently now as well. I can’t follow speech in many shows and movies because voice volume is low and the background crap is too high. Ditto with excessive darkness.
ninkendo 4y ago
I wish there was a CC mode for “I’m not deaf, I just don’t catch the quiet mumbly dialog sometimes so give me captions only of the dialog.” Bonus if it’s delayed by exactly 2 seconds, so that it doesn’t spoil jokes, and I can quickly reference it if I missed something someone said (helping me avoid fixating on the captions.) Because it’s the CC descriptions of music swells and things like “[laughs] and “[crying]”, etc that are distracting for me, and not needed. What’s worse, sometimes they ruin comedic timing by putting the punchline on the screen before the setup has finished (or logical equivalent of a punchline… comedy is often found in timing) and the captions ruin the timing.
- ericbarrett 4y ago
  There is on some shows. For those the choice is between "English" and "English [CC]" or similar; the former omits descriptions of noises. Most don't have this, probably because it's not provided by the producers. Agreed on timing issues. This also seems to vary by show/producer.
  - generalizations 4y ago
    VLC lets you adjust the timing of the closed captions. It's totally possible to set a delay of 2 sec.
    - FabHK 4y ago
      H/J to decrease/increase subtitle delay.
- runarberg 4y ago
  There usually is (but not always). It is something like English vs English [for hearing impaired]. As a non-native English speaker I’m used to watching most television and movies with subtitles. The extra sound descriptions don’t bother me too much actually. Sometimes it is kind of funny actually, it is a running joke in my home to count the times a show has [ominous music].
- Sylamore 4y ago
rileyphone 4y ago
This aligns pretty well with McLuhan's concept of cool and hot media [0]. The younger generations prefer it cool - perhaps their hotness is found in newer forms like video games. [0] https://mediawiki.middlebury.edu/MIDDMedia/Hot_versus_cool_media https://mediawiki.middlebury.edu/MIDDMedia/Hot_versus_cool_m...
- nopenopenopeno 4y ago
  Underrated comment. These are such critical concepts and really the way we should all be discussing out media consumption.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- sph 4y ago
  This is an insightful observation but also feels incomplete and outdated. They use hot and cold to distinguish between "one sense" and "all senses", for some reason, which doesn't quite match modern media. But I definitely agree that there is something to it, and video games occupy a different niche of entertainment than movies for me. Video games are a pastime and a hobby, movies and shows are not unlike books: I don't want to miss a single piece of the action. When I have dinner I watch something off Youtube. Movie time is after dinner when I can give my full attention to it.
- code_biologist 4y ago
  For context, I'm in my mid-30s and grew up playing video games. When doing chores I listen to podcasts or audio books. I really like to think of media consumption in terms of attentional pressure. How long can you not pay attention without "missing something". For movies and TV shows it seems like 15 seconds, plus or minus depending on the content itself. Chatty podcasts give you 30 seconds or a minute. I enjoy the fast video games I play (shoutout to Deep Rock Galactic, killer PVE FPS with a non-toxic player base!) because they modulate their attentional pressure and ratchet it up intensely at moments. It feels great to handle a situation where even a subsecond lapse in attention would result in failure. From wikipedia: Cool media are those that require high participation from users, due to their low definition (the receiver/user must fill in missing information). Since many senses may be used, they foster involvement. Conversely, hot media are low in audience participation due to their high resolution or definition. Seems like it's hard to place fast video games? You don't have to fill in much of anything (hot) but they require full participation (cool).
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
tomjakubowski 4y ago
I think it's not as universal as you believe. I personally use closed captioning as a crutch when I'm half-ass watching something, because if my mind wanders and I miss hearing a line I can usually just read it without having to pause and rewind. If I'm actually fully immersed in the movie or whatever, and I can understand the dialogue, then I don't need the captions and I leave them off.
thrown_22 4y ago
>To me it seems closed-caption usage is correlated with actually paying attention to television consumption. The alternative is that the new generation has no ability to focus on anything and needs the same information piped to their brain through both their eyes and ears. Up next: smellovision captions.
philwelch 4y ago
Your tone is a little smug here. If I’m paying attention to something I’m watching on TV, I can hear the dialogue. I want to be able to actually watch the performances of the actors, or whatever else is on the screen, instead of reading captions.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
jamespullar 4y ago
I'm a native English speaker and grew up mostly overseas in non-English speaking countries. Subtitles helped me understand American slang and conversational English that I wasn't used to hearing at home. I've also always struggled with distinctly understanding dialogue in films. It never had anything to do with active vs passive viewing. Another reason I always had them on was because I grew up in apartments and was always mindful of my noise levels for my neighbors. Using subtitles let me actively consume the film without worrying about bothering people around me. Now as an adult subtitles are my default for all media when available and I prefer it.
snowwrestler 4y ago
This whole framing is bull. People who grew up without closed captions are just used to watching a show without it. For them, it’s distracting to constantly have words to look down and read when they are trying to pay attention to what is happening on the screen. Like trying to read the words on every single road sign when you drive somewhere. You may notice that in movie theaters—the most focused and immersive watching experience there is—they don’t show captions except maybe when translating foreign language. Or you may not, if you only watch movies at home on your TV.
- willis936 4y ago
  I'm closer to 20 than 60. I did not grow up with CCs. I use them because they are an option and give me something I want. If there is bullshit framing then it is the very notion of assumptions based on age, which is caked into the headline.
  - snowwrestler 4y ago
    The bullshit framing is that there is any correlation between having CC on, and how closely the viewer is paying attention to the show or movie. There is not, as evidenced by a century of cinema and TV. Movies originally had captions, because there was no dialogue track. As soon as they figured out synchronized sound, the captions went away. Even if people were paying very close attention.
- ordu 4y ago
  > You may notice that in movie theaters—the most focused and immersive watching experience there is Movie theaters have the same influence on a mind as any other experience of collective attention. It keeps your attention aligned with attention of a crowd. It may be a case of herd behavior, or it may be something special, I dont know, but it works. I believe that this collective attention is the main reason why movie threaters are still profitable. But not just it: surroundings associated with attention on a screen and all these rituals, like eating pop corn, also do their part as stimuli leading to a learned response. You get highly focused attention without any conscious effort. You need conscious to fight it and to divert attention from a screen. But it doesn't matter when you try to watch a movie or a lecture at home. Despite of all your experience of collective attention it would be much harder to keep your attention focused.
asdff 4y ago
Closed captioning only very recently become not crap. It used to be mainly served as those black bars with white text coming in about 30 seconds too late and with ridiculous typos.
seydor 4y ago
Well sure if the actors mumble all the time trying to appear enigmatic, the comprehension is surely greatly improved. I m not american and often i find it very hard to listen to what is said in tv series/movies. This is a new trend in acting btw, older TV was not like that. Older people are more likely to be alone and the TV helps to break the silence. TV is usually tv shows where people speak properly so that helps i guess
afterburner 4y ago
I have an additional theory: In the past, that line needed to come in loud and clear, or people would just miss it, probably forever. Now, we can rewind, or of course turn on subtitles, so there's not as much pressure on the audio finishing to be super clear.
adamisom 4y ago
I personally use my phone sometimes when CC are on, splitting my attention—CC make it easier to not miss too much flirting back n forth. By contrast I always pay attention when CC is off. Given how much younger people use their my phone, I’m gonna say my hypothesis is plausible.
astura 4y ago
Sounds right - my parents (early 70s) don't pay attention to what they are watching even tho watching TV is the only thing they are doing at that time. They both even regularly fall asleep watching TV/movies at night and literally don't care that they missed most of the show/movie they were "watching." They aren't interested in watching the parts they slept through in the morning.

pedalpete 4y ago

I agree, but also find it surprising that younger generations are more focused on what they are watching. I'm a background watcher for sure, and this trend with CC suggests to me that the whole "2nd screen" thing isn't playing with the younger generation. Any insights as to why that may be? To give more context, I was always a "background media" person. Even as a kid I'd draw while in front of the TV, I was never a focused participant.

kuschku 4y ago
Because the younger generation is watching Netflix on their phones. There is no second screen phenomenon because there is no second screen.
nicolas_t 4y ago
I use CC even in my native language especially when I background watch. It's easy to work while watching a tv show (only works with relatively boring work) if I know I can quickly glance at the subtitles if I missed anything.
- sph 4y ago
  What kind of work can you do while watching? You're just doing two things badly. Unless you mean physical work that doesn't engage the mind like cleaning or doing the dishes?
  - nicolas_t 4y ago
    Work that's mind numbingly easy to do... Anything that I know exactly how to solve but need to just spend the time implementing.
camoufleur 4y ago
With television you turn it on and there are a few mediocre choices you can tune out. On streaming platforms you have to specifically select a program to watch. When Gen Z watches/listens to something in the background it's much more likely to be a long YouTube video or a podcast.

mensetmanusman 4y ago

I die on the inside when I go into houses with multiple TVs on in the background as noise.

bscphil 4y ago

> [CC] complements the audio & visual nicely. I don't have any evidence for this but I'd wager that plot synthesis and comprehension of television shows is greatly improved by CC As you say, you don't have any evidence for this, so I'll just add that my subjective impression is the absolute opposite. I find it impossible to concentrate on what is happening visually on screen in a film when closed captions are on. I associate CC with the one place I ever see them - at the laundromat, where they are always on because you can't hear the TV clearly above the background noise. Hard to think of a setting where "background entertainment" is a better descriptor.

Entinel 4y ago
I grew up watching anime with subs and at a certain point it just became natural to have subtitles on even when the content is in English.
- CoastalCoder 4y ago
  For the longest time I couldn't follow anime with subtitles, it kept me from watching the action. I think practice helped, but so did reducing the size of the video frame. Turns out having the whole frame in my field of view was a big deal.
  - dylan604 4y ago
    Depending on the title you're watching, the subs are easier to read. Like one of the episodes from DBZ. Goku: AHHHHHH! Vegeta: ARGHHHH! Goku: OOOMPH!!! Vegta: HMMMMM! The visuals were just as simple. For like most of the episode
  - PuppyTailWags 4y ago
    I think it depends on your reading speed and ability to skim. If you can read faster than people can talk, subtitles aren't really distracting because you can glance down and then go back to reading the visual expressions and background details of the dialogue.
4y ago

Spooky23 4y ago

They mix sound differently now as well. I can’t follow speech in many shows and movies because voice volume is low and the background crap is too high. Ditto with excessive darkness.

ninkendo 4y ago

I wish there was a CC mode for “I’m not deaf, I just don’t catch the quiet mumbly dialog sometimes so give me captions only of the dialog.” Bonus if it’s delayed by exactly 2 seconds, so that it doesn’t spoil jokes, and I can quickly reference it if I missed something someone said (helping me avoid fixating on the captions.) Because it’s the CC descriptions of music swells and things like “[laughs] and “[crying]”, etc that are distracting for me, and not needed. What’s worse, sometimes they ruin comedic timing by putting the punchline on the screen before the setup has finished (or logical equivalent of a punchline… comedy is often found in timing) and the captions ruin the timing.

ericbarrett 4y ago
There is on some shows. For those the choice is between "English" and "English [CC]" or similar; the former omits descriptions of noises. Most don't have this, probably because it's not provided by the producers. Agreed on timing issues. This also seems to vary by show/producer.
- generalizations 4y ago
  VLC lets you adjust the timing of the closed captions. It's totally possible to set a delay of 2 sec.
  - FabHK 4y ago
    H/J to decrease/increase subtitle delay.
runarberg 4y ago
There usually is (but not always). It is something like English vs English [for hearing impaired]. As a non-native English speaker I’m used to watching most television and movies with subtitles. The extra sound descriptions don’t bother me too much actually. Sometimes it is kind of funny actually, it is a running joke in my home to count the times a show has [ominous music].
Sylamore 4y ago

rileyphone 4y ago

This aligns pretty well with McLuhan's concept of cool and hot media [0]. The younger generations prefer it cool - perhaps their hotness is found in newer forms like video games. [0] https://mediawiki.middlebury.edu/MIDDMedia/Hot_versus_cool_media https://mediawiki.middlebury.edu/MIDDMedia/Hot_versus_cool_m...

nopenopenopeno 4y ago
Underrated comment. These are such critical concepts and really the way we should all be discussing out media consumption.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
sph 4y ago
This is an insightful observation but also feels incomplete and outdated. They use hot and cold to distinguish between "one sense" and "all senses", for some reason, which doesn't quite match modern media. But I definitely agree that there is something to it, and video games occupy a different niche of entertainment than movies for me. Video games are a pastime and a hobby, movies and shows are not unlike books: I don't want to miss a single piece of the action. When I have dinner I watch something off Youtube. Movie time is after dinner when I can give my full attention to it.
code_biologist 4y ago
For context, I'm in my mid-30s and grew up playing video games. When doing chores I listen to podcasts or audio books. I really like to think of media consumption in terms of attentional pressure. How long can you not pay attention without "missing something". For movies and TV shows it seems like 15 seconds, plus or minus depending on the content itself. Chatty podcasts give you 30 seconds or a minute. I enjoy the fast video games I play (shoutout to Deep Rock Galactic, killer PVE FPS with a non-toxic player base!) because they modulate their attentional pressure and ratchet it up intensely at moments. It feels great to handle a situation where even a subsecond lapse in attention would result in failure. From wikipedia: Cool media are those that require high participation from users, due to their low definition (the receiver/user must fill in missing information). Since many senses may be used, they foster involvement. Conversely, hot media are low in audience participation due to their high resolution or definition. Seems like it's hard to place fast video games? You don't have to fill in much of anything (hot) but they require full participation (cool).

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

tomjakubowski 4y ago

I think it's not as universal as you believe. I personally use closed captioning as a crutch when I'm half-ass watching something, because if my mind wanders and I miss hearing a line I can usually just read it without having to pause and rewind. If I'm actually fully immersed in the movie or whatever, and I can understand the dialogue, then I don't need the captions and I leave them off.

thrown_22 4y ago

>To me it seems closed-caption usage is correlated with actually paying attention to television consumption. The alternative is that the new generation has no ability to focus on anything and needs the same information piped to their brain through both their eyes and ears. Up next: smellovision captions.

philwelch 4y ago

Your tone is a little smug here. If I’m paying attention to something I’m watching on TV, I can hear the dialogue. I want to be able to actually watch the performances of the actors, or whatever else is on the screen, instead of reading captions.

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]

jamespullar 4y ago

I'm a native English speaker and grew up mostly overseas in non-English speaking countries. Subtitles helped me understand American slang and conversational English that I wasn't used to hearing at home. I've also always struggled with distinctly understanding dialogue in films. It never had anything to do with active vs passive viewing. Another reason I always had them on was because I grew up in apartments and was always mindful of my noise levels for my neighbors. Using subtitles let me actively consume the film without worrying about bothering people around me. Now as an adult subtitles are my default for all media when available and I prefer it.

snowwrestler 4y ago

This whole framing is bull. People who grew up without closed captions are just used to watching a show without it. For them, it’s distracting to constantly have words to look down and read when they are trying to pay attention to what is happening on the screen. Like trying to read the words on every single road sign when you drive somewhere. You may notice that in movie theaters—the most focused and immersive watching experience there is—they don’t show captions except maybe when translating foreign language. Or you may not, if you only watch movies at home on your TV.

willis936 4y ago
I'm closer to 20 than 60. I did not grow up with CCs. I use them because they are an option and give me something I want. If there is bullshit framing then it is the very notion of assumptions based on age, which is caked into the headline.
- snowwrestler 4y ago
  The bullshit framing is that there is any correlation between having CC on, and how closely the viewer is paying attention to the show or movie. There is not, as evidenced by a century of cinema and TV. Movies originally had captions, because there was no dialogue track. As soon as they figured out synchronized sound, the captions went away. Even if people were paying very close attention.
ordu 4y ago
> You may notice that in movie theaters—the most focused and immersive watching experience there is Movie theaters have the same influence on a mind as any other experience of collective attention. It keeps your attention aligned with attention of a crowd. It may be a case of herd behavior, or it may be something special, I dont know, but it works. I believe that this collective attention is the main reason why movie threaters are still profitable. But not just it: surroundings associated with attention on a screen and all these rituals, like eating pop corn, also do their part as stimuli leading to a learned response. You get highly focused attention without any conscious effort. You need conscious to fight it and to divert attention from a screen. But it doesn't matter when you try to watch a movie or a lecture at home. Despite of all your experience of collective attention it would be much harder to keep your attention focused.

asdff 4y ago

Closed captioning only very recently become not crap. It used to be mainly served as those black bars with white text coming in about 30 seconds too late and with ridiculous typos.

seydor 4y ago

Well sure if the actors mumble all the time trying to appear enigmatic, the comprehension is surely greatly improved. I m not american and often i find it very hard to listen to what is said in tv series/movies. This is a new trend in acting btw, older TV was not like that. Older people are more likely to be alone and the TV helps to break the silence. TV is usually tv shows where people speak properly so that helps i guess

afterburner 4y ago

I have an additional theory: In the past, that line needed to come in loud and clear, or people would just miss it, probably forever. Now, we can rewind, or of course turn on subtitles, so there's not as much pressure on the audio finishing to be super clear.

adamisom 4y ago

I personally use my phone sometimes when CC are on, splitting my attention—CC make it easier to not miss too much flirting back n forth. By contrast I always pay attention when CC is off. Given how much younger people use their my phone, I’m gonna say my hypothesis is plausible.

astura 4y ago

Sounds right - my parents (early 70s) don't pay attention to what they are watching even tho watching TV is the only thing they are doing at that time. They both even regularly fall asleep watching TV/movies at night and literally don't care that they missed most of the show/movie they were "watching." They aren't interested in watching the parts they slept through in the morning.