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Can we really build batteries at the scale needed for this? I’m a bit skeptical.
by vondur 4y ago
Can we really build batteries at the scale needed for this? I’m a bit skeptical.
- bryanlarsen 4y agoWhy? The materials needed for LiFePO4 batteries are very common, and we only need a few dozen large factories and refineries. Compared to the size of the fossil fuel extraction industry, it's tiny. The only question is how quickly we can build up to the scale needed, not if we can.
- brtkdotse 4y agoPhosphorus is essential to growing food and shortages have already begun.
- lukeschlather 4y agoThere's no shortage of phosphorus. As prices go up extraction from human waste becomes profitable and all municipalities just do it. We invest in closed loop systems we stop having to think about energy and agricultural inputs as extractive, there is minimal possibility of "shortage" it's just a closed-loop system that occasionally needs to be topped off a bit.
- stjohnswarts 4y agoYou don't "just do" anything on that scale.
- ncmncm 4y agoBut you do them.
- bryanlarsen 4y agoWe have a shortage of refined Lithium and Phosphate. We have no shortage of the unrefined elements in profitable concentrations.
- burkaman 4y agoI mean, that's what this study is about. There is extensive discussion of the cost, production, and technology trends of batteries in the full text.
- swid 4y agoRecently I saw on HN that Australia has a path to >98% renewable energy (solar, wind, hydro) with only 5 hours of battery storage. That’s a lot of value for less battery backup than I would have thought. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32567994 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32567994
- 01100011 4y agoDo you believe it? Solar+wind has had several notable failures so far when overcast skies combined with windless conditions. Hydro probably helps to a great degree though.
- pfdietz 4y agoRare dark/calm periods can be countered by storage technologies other than batteries. These technologies typically have lower efficiency than batteries, but that doesn't matter when they're only rarely called on. For these technologies, low per-energy-stored capital cost is much more important than high efficiency. As an example: hydrogen can be stored in solution-mined salt caverns for as little as $1/kWh of storage capacity.
- 01100011 4y agoContext my friend. Read what OP and I are talking about and note how your post has nothing to do with it. We're certainly not discussing things which are currently in the realm of unrealized dreams.