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Opening line: The ostensible premise of The Godfather, the film version of which celebrates its 50th anniversary this year, is that American society is so prej
by moralestapia 4y ago
Opening line:
The ostensible premise of The Godfather, the film version of which celebrates its 50th anniversary this year, is that American society is so prejudiced against Italians that extraordinary men such as Vito and Michael Corleone have no choice but to turn to crime.
What? No way, that's not even remotely true.
- mc32 4y agoIt doesn't matter, if you can insert a political angle, in anything, these days, it sells because everyone is buying. It does not matter if it's imagined or real.
- hirundo 4y ago"Let's analyze <cultural artifact> through <the current zeitgeist lens>" seems like a useful template to update on the value of both the artifact and the lens. In this case the lens seems to distort more than clarify the artifact.
- BMc2020 4y agoI like that framing. Reminds me of the scene in Good Will Hunting where he tells the jock what he's going to believe in what order just by listing the textbooks for his upcoming courses.
- anigbrowl 4y agoMichael Anton, a former National Security Council staffer in the Trump White House, is a lecturer in politics at Hillsdale College’s Washington, DC, campus and a senior fellow of the Claremont Institute. That's pretty much what this is. A look at the top page of the website suggests it's basically a conservative op-ed magazine.
- dhosek 4y agoThere are some interesting observations, but the author’s desire to fit his argument within his ideological framework ultimately dooms the essay.
- kcplate 4y agoDoesn’t pretty much every author of an opinion on pop culture (or really anything) do this?
- mpalczewski 4y agoIt's a flaw in the way people have been taught to write and analyze writing. You don't see people using the steel man very often.
- kcplate 4y ago>It's a flaw in the way people have been taught to write and analyze writing. I think it’s just human nature. I cant think of a single thing I have read where the author’s underlying biases didn’t really reveal themselves in some way.
- mpalczewski 4y agoUnderlying biases are fine, even better when explicitly stated. It’s writing everything like it’s propaganda that’s an issue. Not everything needs to be an advertisement. Not everything needs to have something to argue against. When it does acknowledging that there might be another point of view, might be another set of values, or just understanding the best argument against you shows thought.
- tmpz22 4y agoThe Offer on Paramount+ really gives a chilling pitch for The Godfather [1]. That some fall for the Strong Man stereotype and project it onto Vito and Michael is wrong. There's so much more to it. [1]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jWZBKFrlgks https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jWZBKFrlgks
- ogogmad 4y agoNot available in my country. Is there a way to watch this? [edit] VPN.
- agomez314 4y agowhy not? why would the Corleone family go through so much trouble to live a criminal life, with all its dangers?
- funstuff007 4y agodo you extend this line of reasoning to all criminals whose forebears did not arrive on the Mayflower?
- shakow 4y agoMoney.
- rufus_foreman 4y ago"To me being a wiseguy was better than being president of the United States. It meant power among people who had no power. It meant perks in a working-class neighborhood that had no privileges. To be a wiseguy was to own the world. I dreamed about being a wiseguy the way other kids dreamed about being movie stars or firemen or ballplayers. ... We walked in a room and the place stopped. Everyone knew who we were, and we were treated like movie stars with muscle. We had it all and it was all free." -- Henry Hill
- ZeroGravitas 4y agoThis seems to support both sides of the argument, particularly the central part: > It meant power among people who had no power. It meant perks in a working-class neighborhood that had no privileges. To be a wiseguy was to own the world. I dreamed about being a wiseguy the way other kids dreamed about being movie stars or firemen or ballplayers
- arcanus 4y ago> No way, that's not even remotely true Oh. Who’s being naïve, Kay? Keep reading, because the article says, "The idea that American anti-Italian bigotry is the root cause of the mafia is obviously stupid." And, "Of course, the Don tells himself that his choice of crime is justified. Of course, Michael tells Kay whatever she needs to hear to give him what he wants. These are, let’s remember, bad people consistently doing bad things. Understood in this light, Michael’s manipulation of Kay is a flaw not in the film, but in Michael."
- MichaelCollins 4y agoAt the start of the movie, Michael is not involved in the family business. The movie shows how and why Michael gets dragged into the family business, and it's not "American society is so prejudiced against Italians" American society considered Michael a war hero at the start of the movie. Michael is not shown to be the victim of a society prejudiced against his ethnicity. Michael is dragged into the family business when a corrupt Irish-American police captain, paid off by a rival Italian-American mob, try to assassinate Michael's father. Corrupt police and Michael's loyalty to his family interact in a manner that drags Michael into a life of crime.
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- DoItToMe81 4y agoNot only that, but he's clearly portrayed as being ruthless and irredeemable. How could the author see the end assassination scenes and think "Ugh, he's being painted as such a victim"?
- mellosouls 4y agoostensible premise "appearing or claiming to be one thing when it is really something else"
- kcplate 4y ago>not even remotely true My wife’s immigrant great grandfather felt compelled to change his last name to avoid prejudice against the Irish within the same time period, so I’d say it’s completely likely. Her great grandfather could blend in simply by changing his name and affecting a less brogue accent. Other immigrants could not hide their backgrounds so easily.
- erie 4y agoLebanese immigrants were given Anglo names while they were boarding in the Titanic. ' The “International Lebanese Titanic Committee” was founded with the following objectives: – Collect as much information as possible on them and their descendants; – Collect as much – Correct their names without the Anglicization or phonetic approximation that shrouded their true identity for a century; Ascertain their Lebanese-ness https://www.lebanesechamber.ca/recognizing-lebanese-aboard-titanic/ https://www.lebanesechamber.ca/recognizing-lebanese-aboard-t... and https://www.thenationalnews.com/lifestyle/a-familiar-shout-in-titanic-film-spurs-search-for-arab-passengers-1.572241 https://www.thenationalnews.com/lifestyle/a-familiar-shout-i... All my Arab friends had to change their names to be able to work in silicone valley companies, such as Microsoft et al. That was back in the 90s.
- WalterBright 4y agoGerman-Americans routinely americanized their names in WW1 because of a lot of anti-German sentiment.
- MichaelCollins 4y agoThe British royal family did this. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/House_of_Windsor#Background https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/House_of_Windsor#Background
- ZeroGravitas 4y agoEmpire biscuits were the original Freedom Fries: > Empire biscuit was originally known as the "Linzer biscuit", and later as the "Deutsch biscuit". With the outbreak of the First World War it was renamed in England to Empire biscuit and in Scotland to Belgian biscuit because Belgium had just been invaded, but in Northern Ireland it remains known as the German biscuit or biscuit bun.
- Glyptodon 4y agoYeah, I think the failure to have an understanding of Italians in America over time and reduce it all to a simplification that ostensibly applies throughout multiple eras no context or complexity required, was a very jarring and stood out like a sore thumb.
- WheelsAtLarge 4y agoIt's very true. The Godfather and the Godfather II are a direct adaptation of the book. In Godfather II, the movie outlines how Vito Corleone becomes the Godfather and it's all about being poor and Italian and the unfairness of society towards them. In the First movie it's only alluded to how society is so unfair to poor Italians and that crime is the only way for great men to find their destiny. The movie is about Italian immigrants but it can easily be about any poor social class. If a person doesn't have the opportunities and role models then crime is often the way many people see their best path to greatness and riches. BTW, the discrimination of immigrants has always been a reality so the book is building on the true facts of how our society functions.
- MichaelCollins 4y agoI haven't read the book, but the movie doesn't show Michael's decision to join the family business being motivated by mistreatment by society, except for a corrupt police chief who is himself part of a marginalized ethnicity (Irish-American) and paid off by another Italian-American gang. The movie doesn't show Michael being victimized by WASP society.
- WheelsAtLarge 4y agoBut he is, Michael didn't have a choice. He had to defend his father by killing Zollozzo and McCluskey. And once Sunny was killed there was no one else to take over the family empire. The reason the family is in the business is in is because it's the only path Vito Corleon saw as a way to scape poverty and discriminations. Once the path was set by him, it's hard for the family to escape it. The predominate theme is Michael's desire to get out of the life of crime but not being able to do it. He gets blocked by the family's history and what others expect of the family business and its leader. The story is a tragedy, Vito is a great success in an area in society that no one outside the crime families respects. Imagine what he and his family could have been had he not been discriminated.
- greenthrow 4y agoIt is explaining them but it is not condoning them. It never says they have no choice, it merely shows the circumstances that made the choices they make more understandable than you might think. But that doesn't mean they are ok.