4 ms·

There is an enormous and probably diverse online peanut gallery for Rust. I think the concern is more about the diversity of contributors - many of these people

There is an enormous and probably diverse online peanut gallery for Rust. I think the concern is more about the diversity of contributors - many of these people meet in person. So the dogs and purple with orange speckled snails will be found out as such. Making sure people feel safe both online and in meatspace is important. There is also a huge amount of imposter syndrome kicking about. It's important to garden new contributors of all kinds to make sure the best people can grow. While I have no data, I'd easily believe that dogs and snails have way more and severe imposter syndrome than cis white hetero males. So if we do want to make sure that all kinds of people can break through there's little harm in keeping tabs on the issue. There are probably other impediments to contributing that I don't even know about. They should also be found and addressed, right?

psd1 4y ago
Yes, and... In the 50s, 25% of software engineers were female; now, it's, what, 3%. Why is that? The "meritocracy" position focuses on who can produce the best code _now_. What if we take a longer view? I would love it if we planted the idea in 9-year-old girls' heads that Computer Programmer is a job they could do. That way, in 15 years, we'll have a broader talent pool. I'm skeptical that is quantifiable. But would the "meritocracy" advocates accept some level of token hiring, at some level of reduction of quality now, in search of a greater meritocracy and greater quality in future?
- hyperman1 4y ago
  To be honest, all jobs Ive done had plenty of woman in tech. I've had a woman in tech be my manager or my director. I've never counted stats, and maybe they tend to be more in analytical roles, but a female dev was never that abnormal for me. Maybe the 3% is more of an us thing? Of course everyone should be able to choose the job they like. I am not going to purposely plant any ideas in anyone boy or girl. Let them sample everything and choose what they like. I am not going to push them. And a level of token hiring to have more females? Sorry, that's nonsense. Why would someone female not be able to be the best? If you're scared of bias, put some woman in the intervieuw and ask them to review candidates. I've seen genius level woman who would program circles around most males(and most females). It is insulting if you think woman need lowering standards before they have a chance, even short term. BTW, the biggest producer of 'female equals dumb' style jokes was a female programmer in my last job. Most of us males just ignored her when she started like that.
  - psd1 4y ago
    What country are you in? In the UK, women aren't taking CS degrees. That's why I mention pedagogy. There's something in my country's culture that is planting the idea that girls don't code. "Planting ideas" is also the basis of teaching - it doesn't imply "pushing them" and it isn't opposed to "letting them sample". I haven't come across any female devs at all in my company. We have diversity of skin colour and sexuality but not sex. So we haven't got any females to sit in on technical interviews. Please, don't straw-man me as suggesting that female devs cannot be the best. My point is that there _aren't any_ female devs, and it looks like it's because girls _aren't interested_ in becoming devs, and here at least that is due to social conditioning afaics. You really missed my point there. Keen to know what's different in your locale.

psd1 4y ago

Yes, and... In the 50s, 25% of software engineers were female; now, it's, what, 3%. Why is that? The "meritocracy" position focuses on who can produce the best code _now_. What if we take a longer view? I would love it if we planted the idea in 9-year-old girls' heads that Computer Programmer is a job they could do. That way, in 15 years, we'll have a broader talent pool. I'm skeptical that is quantifiable. But would the "meritocracy" advocates accept some level of token hiring, at some level of reduction of quality now, in search of a greater meritocracy and greater quality in future?

hyperman1 4y ago
To be honest, all jobs Ive done had plenty of woman in tech. I've had a woman in tech be my manager or my director. I've never counted stats, and maybe they tend to be more in analytical roles, but a female dev was never that abnormal for me. Maybe the 3% is more of an us thing? Of course everyone should be able to choose the job they like. I am not going to purposely plant any ideas in anyone boy or girl. Let them sample everything and choose what they like. I am not going to push them. And a level of token hiring to have more females? Sorry, that's nonsense. Why would someone female not be able to be the best? If you're scared of bias, put some woman in the intervieuw and ask them to review candidates. I've seen genius level woman who would program circles around most males(and most females). It is insulting if you think woman need lowering standards before they have a chance, even short term. BTW, the biggest producer of 'female equals dumb' style jokes was a female programmer in my last job. Most of us males just ignored her when she started like that.
- psd1 4y ago
  What country are you in? In the UK, women aren't taking CS degrees. That's why I mention pedagogy. There's something in my country's culture that is planting the idea that girls don't code. "Planting ideas" is also the basis of teaching - it doesn't imply "pushing them" and it isn't opposed to "letting them sample". I haven't come across any female devs at all in my company. We have diversity of skin colour and sexuality but not sex. So we haven't got any females to sit in on technical interviews. Please, don't straw-man me as suggesting that female devs cannot be the best. My point is that there _aren't any_ female devs, and it looks like it's because girls _aren't interested_ in becoming devs, and here at least that is due to social conditioning afaics. You really missed my point there. Keen to know what's different in your locale.