3 ms·

It’s astonishing how fast the zeitgeist has changed in the upper echelons of the C++ community. Only a few years ago everyone was excited that the language had

It’s astonishing how fast the zeitgeist has changed in the upper echelons of the C++ community. Only a few years ago everyone was excited that the language had broken out of its 0x-era rut and into a regular cadence of significant modernizing improvements. The word “renaissance” was used often. Now everyone seems miserable.

fwsgonzo 4y ago
Hardly miserable. But we do need to address the fact that people are not starting new projects in C++. It is a fact, and that fact has a well understood reason. Solving that issue the regular way, through implementation, committee and then standardization, seems herculean. In fact, it is probably never going to happen. That contributes to negativity, but it is not hopeless. Translating a modernized, possibly memory-safe version of C++ to standard C++ is definitely one such possibility, and it is great that someone who is as capable as Herb Sutter is working on it.
- humanrebar 4y ago
  > ...people are not starting new projects in C++. It is a fact... That's absolutely not true. I've seen plenty of new projects in C++ in the last month alone. A lot of the time when someone writes a binary wheel for python, it's in C++ for example. I'd ask for citation, but I can't imagine how someone would demonstrate a negative claim like this.
  - fwsgonzo 4y ago
    https://twitter.com/markrussinovich/status/1571995117233504257 https://twitter.com/markrussinovich/status/15719951172335042...
arinlen 4y ago
> Only a few years ago everyone was excited that the language had broken out of its 0x-era rut and into a regular cadence of significant modernizing improvements. The 0x era started around two decades ago, a few years after the release of C++98, and arguably ended over a decade ago with the release of C++11. This isn't something new. > Now everyone seems miserable. I don't see any misery. If anything, what I see is projects bounded to old C++ versions due to real-world constraints.
CyberDildonics 4y ago
Modern C++ is fantastic. Memory errors are rare and easily contained since data structures can be treated as values. It is flexible down to a very low level, but most programming can be done at a much higher level. Ignoring inheritance and using templates, you can just make programs about simple data structures and loops. No hacks needed to work around garbage collection or excessive memory allocation, it's great.

fwsgonzo 4y ago

Hardly miserable. But we do need to address the fact that people are not starting new projects in C++. It is a fact, and that fact has a well understood reason. Solving that issue the regular way, through implementation, committee and then standardization, seems herculean. In fact, it is probably never going to happen. That contributes to negativity, but it is not hopeless. Translating a modernized, possibly memory-safe version of C++ to standard C++ is definitely one such possibility, and it is great that someone who is as capable as Herb Sutter is working on it.

humanrebar 4y ago
> ...people are not starting new projects in C++. It is a fact... That's absolutely not true. I've seen plenty of new projects in C++ in the last month alone. A lot of the time when someone writes a binary wheel for python, it's in C++ for example. I'd ask for citation, but I can't imagine how someone would demonstrate a negative claim like this.
- fwsgonzo 4y ago
  https://twitter.com/markrussinovich/status/1571995117233504257 https://twitter.com/markrussinovich/status/15719951172335042...

arinlen 4y ago

> Only a few years ago everyone was excited that the language had broken out of its 0x-era rut and into a regular cadence of significant modernizing improvements. The 0x era started around two decades ago, a few years after the release of C++98, and arguably ended over a decade ago with the release of C++11. This isn't something new. > Now everyone seems miserable. I don't see any misery. If anything, what I see is projects bounded to old C++ versions due to real-world constraints.

CyberDildonics 4y ago

Modern C++ is fantastic. Memory errors are rare and easily contained since data structures can be treated as values. It is flexible down to a very low level, but most programming can be done at a much higher level. Ignoring inheritance and using templates, you can just make programs about simple data structures and loops. No hacks needed to work around garbage collection or excessive memory allocation, it's great.