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>first, high-end cards are the ones that miners liked Last I checked most miners went for 3070s and below, because they're energy efficient. Though when supply

>first, high-end cards are the ones that miners liked Last I checked most miners went for 3070s and below, because they're energy efficient. Though when supply ran short they used everything they could get. And you really didn't get the point about high end cards. EVGA previously served a segment of enthusiast consumers that would spend exorbitant amounts of money for slight performance gains / overclocking sport. But under the new NVIDIA rules you can't take a 3090 and put the highest quality components and beefiest coolers on it, because the price of a 3090 is limited by NVIDIA to be around the range of a FE 3090.

Nursie 4y ago
We’ll that blatantly wasn’t the case - the FE’s were under half the market price of other cards for a good portion of the last two years! The markup was coming in somewhere, and if the partners didn't get any of that markup then there's something very wrong. Actually there probably was a lot wrong all over the place over the last two years, the whole market was insane.
- sascha_sl 4y ago
  I'm sure some retailers also pumped the price.
paulmd 4y ago
Zotac's first-party storefront and other first-party stores were selling 3090s at well over $2k, so if there were caps they were capped at ~50% above FE pricing or higher. Not "around the range of a FE", that doesn't even pass the smell test lol. TUL Corp is a great example to look at the profit margins of GPU companies, because their revenue is approximately 95% GPUs (they own PowerColor) and they're publicly traded, unlike most of the other examples of GPU-heavy private companies (EVGA is privately owned). I've seen them used for similar analyses of the 2018 mining boom on seeking alpha [0], for example. https://www.morningstar.com/stocks/roco/6150/financials https://www.morningstar.com/stocks/roco/6150/financials So, profit in 2019: -80m. Profit in 2020: 30m. Profit in 2021: 1.08 billion. So, they made a 36x increase in profits that year. In contrast, topline revenue increased only 2.3x. So they had a massive fucking increase in margins. People need to stop being so incredibly credulous, do you really think the CEO doesn't have his own angle here? It's completely amazing, a year ago nobody would have pissed on these CEOs if they were on fire, because everyone knew they were selling straight to mining farms. And now everybody is just taking them at their word that they didn't make any money on GPUs during the mining boom, heck they probably lost money right? Like gosh if they say they didn't rob the bank I guess we just have to trust them, why would they lie about something like that? It's been really fascinating watching the "green man bad" field overpower everybody's common sense. I guess the reflexive hatred of NVIDIA is stronger than the hatred of miners and companies that catered to miners. So much so that people will believe obvious lies (or significant misrepresentations) from companies that were blatantly profiteering right in front of our faces for more than a year, as long as it caters to the "green man bad" perspective. It is incredibly frustrating to watch, as someone who considers themself a seeker of truth and insight. But then, here we are with the "partners didn't really make any money on GPUs during the mining boom" take. Could it just maybe be possible that maybe the CEO is not being fully honest here? [0] https://seekingalpha.com/article/4181940-asian-aib-read-through-gpu-mining-picture https://seekingalpha.com/article/4181940-asian-aib-read-thro... https://seekingalpha.com/article/4186417-tul-corp-revenue-data-offers-first-clear-read-on-amd-q2-gpu-biz https://seekingalpha.com/article/4186417-tul-corp-revenue-da...
paulmd 4y ago
BTW there's a second take on some of this with Igor's Lab here. https://www.igorslab.de/en/evga-pulls-the-plug-with-loud-bang-yet-it-has-long-been-editorial/ https://www.igorslab.de/en/evga-pulls-the-plug-with-loud-ban... Basically: other partners have confirmed they think EVGA is just being dramatic and making a statement in general here, that this is kinda just how being a partner is. And that EVGA in general has some factors that make it worse - they're super small and contract out all their assembly, so they take lower margins there, they have a very generous warranty by industry standards, and they've been losing money on other business ventures and the GPU market collapsing makes things tough for the company as a whole. But they describe last year as a "10x margins year" which fits what I'm talking about with TUL Corp too. They think EVGA just wants to quit on a high note, and quit cleanly during a generational changeover.

Nursie 4y ago

We’ll that blatantly wasn’t the case - the FE’s were under half the market price of other cards for a good portion of the last two years! The markup was coming in somewhere, and if the partners didn't get any of that markup then there's something very wrong. Actually there probably was a lot wrong all over the place over the last two years, the whole market was insane.

sascha_sl 4y ago
I'm sure some retailers also pumped the price.

paulmd 4y ago

Zotac's first-party storefront and other first-party stores were selling 3090s at well over $2k, so if there were caps they were capped at ~50% above FE pricing or higher. Not "around the range of a FE", that doesn't even pass the smell test lol. TUL Corp is a great example to look at the profit margins of GPU companies, because their revenue is approximately 95% GPUs (they own PowerColor) and they're publicly traded, unlike most of the other examples of GPU-heavy private companies (EVGA is privately owned). I've seen them used for similar analyses of the 2018 mining boom on seeking alpha [0], for example. https://www.morningstar.com/stocks/roco/6150/financials https://www.morningstar.com/stocks/roco/6150/financials So, profit in 2019: -80m. Profit in 2020: 30m. Profit in 2021: 1.08 billion. So, they made a 36x increase in profits that year. In contrast, topline revenue increased only 2.3x. So they had a massive fucking increase in margins. People need to stop being so incredibly credulous, do you really think the CEO doesn't have his own angle here? It's completely amazing, a year ago nobody would have pissed on these CEOs if they were on fire, because everyone knew they were selling straight to mining farms. And now everybody is just taking them at their word that they didn't make any money on GPUs during the mining boom, heck they probably lost money right? Like gosh if they say they didn't rob the bank I guess we just have to trust them, why would they lie about something like that? It's been really fascinating watching the "green man bad" field overpower everybody's common sense. I guess the reflexive hatred of NVIDIA is stronger than the hatred of miners and companies that catered to miners. So much so that people will believe obvious lies (or significant misrepresentations) from companies that were blatantly profiteering right in front of our faces for more than a year, as long as it caters to the "green man bad" perspective. It is incredibly frustrating to watch, as someone who considers themself a seeker of truth and insight. But then, here we are with the "partners didn't really make any money on GPUs during the mining boom" take. Could it just maybe be possible that maybe the CEO is not being fully honest here? [0] https://seekingalpha.com/article/4181940-asian-aib-read-through-gpu-mining-picture https://seekingalpha.com/article/4181940-asian-aib-read-thro... https://seekingalpha.com/article/4186417-tul-corp-revenue-data-offers-first-clear-read-on-amd-q2-gpu-biz https://seekingalpha.com/article/4186417-tul-corp-revenue-da...

paulmd 4y ago

BTW there's a second take on some of this with Igor's Lab here. https://www.igorslab.de/en/evga-pulls-the-plug-with-loud-bang-yet-it-has-long-been-editorial/ https://www.igorslab.de/en/evga-pulls-the-plug-with-loud-ban... Basically: other partners have confirmed they think EVGA is just being dramatic and making a statement in general here, that this is kinda just how being a partner is. And that EVGA in general has some factors that make it worse - they're super small and contract out all their assembly, so they take lower margins there, they have a very generous warranty by industry standards, and they've been losing money on other business ventures and the GPU market collapsing makes things tough for the company as a whole. But they describe last year as a "10x margins year" which fits what I'm talking about with TUL Corp too. They think EVGA just wants to quit on a high note, and quit cleanly during a generational changeover.