5 ms·

There's a difference between trying to help a guy solve a specific problem and trying to evangelize him to switch to your preferred platform. There are tons of

by luigi 15y ago

There's a difference between trying to help a guy solve a specific problem and trying to evangelize him to switch to your preferred platform. There are tons of resources on the Web devoted to syncing Outlook with the iPhone. Maybe someone more tech savvy (like Marco) could have helped. Instead he said he "couldn't help him". He really meant "I don't want to try to help you".

lifeisstillgood 15y ago
The trade off lies in the amount of effort marco will spend trying to learn Outlook, understand which resource on the web is wrong, misguided, lying or just out of date, and the level of frustration his (father-in-law?) can bear, as opposed to say, going for a drink and a walk on Thanksgiving. At a certain point just saying I dont know how gives the other person a data point on how much effort their choices will involve. I have wasted days before now trying tofix things I should have simply said "I don't know - its R&D from here on in, these are my rates"
rickmb 15y ago
Yep, but that's exactly what you need to stay sane when faced with people who a) don't want to adopt a solution that I know to work, but b) are incapable or unwilling to make the effort to make their own "preferred" solution work. I've come to the same place as Marco: I just "admit" I can't help them. Yes, it's a white lie, but not one that keeps me awake at night.
tptacek 15y ago
You missed the whole point of his post. Marco is saying he has finally come to realize that "tech savvy" doesn't mean "qualified to suggest changes". He's not being lazy. He's talking about humility. Some people's real-life logistical issues transcend technological issues.
- vectorpush 15y ago
  I think you're missing luigi's point. He's simply remarking that the OP didn't have to advocate a change in use pattern in order to lend his expertise to his friend's father. Instead, the OP made the choice not to use his time assisting someone who doesn't want to "go all Apple". Of course, the OP isn't obligated to offer free tech support, but he certainly could have helped.
  - tptacek 15y ago
    No, he couldn't, because his "help" will set the guy back. That's what he's saying. You might disagree, but then explain why.
    - jaetldev 15y ago
      Constructive help would've probably helped the user make an informed decision to 'switch'. OP probably means that going a step beyond and even advocating a patch work strategy might have better convinced the user to switch(in time...) rather than advocacy.
    - shasta 15y ago
      Why don't you explain why his help would have "set the guy back?". The closest the article comes to justifying this claim is that (from memory) "[the author] doesn't know shit about outlook or windows architecture". But as luigi and vectorpush have noted, as someone with general tech savvy, he could still have helped.
      - rabenfrass 15y ago
        You can 1) throw in a suggestion, 2) blindly suggest whatever works for you as the best way, 3) learn about the goals, setup, and knowledge of the user as the first step. The point of the article is: 2) is a mistake.
voxmatt 15y ago
I think you're misreading the whole thrust of the article. What Marco was getting at was that he can't help him in light of his (Outlook user's) expectations. The article is saying (1) Marco has a use pattern that works well for Marco, (2) that use pattern could be pushed on someone else in a way that fixes the user's problem as Marco sees it, (3) but Marco has come to the realization that the problem lies with the user's personal use pattern combined with his expectations for the technology. I think that's really insightful. If you let go of the idea that you can change (or that it's worth the effort to change) everyone's use patterns, then you have to accept that some use patterns simply don't have solutions that meet the user's expectations. And in those situations, it's best not to fight the user--let them work it out. Hopefully, in the end, they find something that works for them.
- luriel 15y ago
  > but Marco has come to the realization that the problem lies with the user's personal use pattern combined with his expectations for the technology. I think that's really insightful. No, the real problem lies with the technology over-promising and under-delivering. There is no reason why the problems the user was experiencing should exist, other than that software quality is appalling.
yardie 15y ago
I think the point is there are tons of guides online for syncing outlook as long as you follow the basic format. One person's workflow can be quite different from another persons, even in Outlook. People have created rules, special signatures, mailboxes, folders, etc. and this is just in Outlook. Many of the online guides don't cover any of that and this isn't something you can resolve over a beer. And that is the point, your quick 10-minute fix will only cause more problems down the line. I've also reached the same conclusion even before 30. Edit: I'm reminded of a friend that makes music. He always burns a CD to play in his stereo. His stereo also has a USB port and will play MP3s from there. So I suggested instead of burning CDs he could just copy it to a USB key. So he does that and he hates it. Why? When he's burning a CD he gets to arrange the tracks in the order he likes. The stereo plays MP3s in alphabetical order. The time saved from not having to burn CDs is now wasted on having to rename MP3s into the proper order. Yeah, whatever works for you.

by luigi 15y ago

lifeisstillgood 15y ago

The trade off lies in the amount of effort marco will spend trying to learn Outlook, understand which resource on the web is wrong, misguided, lying or just out of date, and the level of frustration his (father-in-law?) can bear, as opposed to say, going for a drink and a walk on Thanksgiving. At a certain point just saying I dont know how gives the other person a data point on how much effort their choices will involve. I have wasted days before now trying tofix things I should have simply said "I don't know - its R&D from here on in, these are my rates"

rickmb 15y ago

Yep, but that's exactly what you need to stay sane when faced with people who a) don't want to adopt a solution that I know to work, but b) are incapable or unwilling to make the effort to make their own "preferred" solution work. I've come to the same place as Marco: I just "admit" I can't help them. Yes, it's a white lie, but not one that keeps me awake at night.

tptacek 15y ago

You missed the whole point of his post. Marco is saying he has finally come to realize that "tech savvy" doesn't mean "qualified to suggest changes". He's not being lazy. He's talking about humility. Some people's real-life logistical issues transcend technological issues.

vectorpush 15y ago
I think you're missing luigi's point. He's simply remarking that the OP didn't have to advocate a change in use pattern in order to lend his expertise to his friend's father. Instead, the OP made the choice not to use his time assisting someone who doesn't want to "go all Apple". Of course, the OP isn't obligated to offer free tech support, but he certainly could have helped.
- tptacek 15y ago
  No, he couldn't, because his "help" will set the guy back. That's what he's saying. You might disagree, but then explain why.
  - jaetldev 15y ago
    Constructive help would've probably helped the user make an informed decision to 'switch'. OP probably means that going a step beyond and even advocating a patch work strategy might have better convinced the user to switch(in time...) rather than advocacy.
  - shasta 15y ago
    Why don't you explain why his help would have "set the guy back?". The closest the article comes to justifying this claim is that (from memory) "[the author] doesn't know shit about outlook or windows architecture". But as luigi and vectorpush have noted, as someone with general tech savvy, he could still have helped.
    - rabenfrass 15y ago
      You can 1) throw in a suggestion, 2) blindly suggest whatever works for you as the best way, 3) learn about the goals, setup, and knowledge of the user as the first step. The point of the article is: 2) is a mistake.

voxmatt 15y ago

I think you're misreading the whole thrust of the article. What Marco was getting at was that he can't help him in light of his (Outlook user's) expectations. The article is saying (1) Marco has a use pattern that works well for Marco, (2) that use pattern could be pushed on someone else in a way that fixes the user's problem as Marco sees it, (3) but Marco has come to the realization that the problem lies with the user's personal use pattern combined with his expectations for the technology. I think that's really insightful. If you let go of the idea that you can change (or that it's worth the effort to change) everyone's use patterns, then you have to accept that some use patterns simply don't have solutions that meet the user's expectations. And in those situations, it's best not to fight the user--let them work it out. Hopefully, in the end, they find something that works for them.

luriel 15y ago
> but Marco has come to the realization that the problem lies with the user's personal use pattern combined with his expectations for the technology. I think that's really insightful. No, the real problem lies with the technology over-promising and under-delivering. There is no reason why the problems the user was experiencing should exist, other than that software quality is appalling.

yardie 15y ago

I think the point is there are tons of guides online for syncing outlook as long as you follow the basic format. One person's workflow can be quite different from another persons, even in Outlook. People have created rules, special signatures, mailboxes, folders, etc. and this is just in Outlook. Many of the online guides don't cover any of that and this isn't something you can resolve over a beer. And that is the point, your quick 10-minute fix will only cause more problems down the line. I've also reached the same conclusion even before 30. Edit: I'm reminded of a friend that makes music. He always burns a CD to play in his stereo. His stereo also has a USB port and will play MP3s from there. So I suggested instead of burning CDs he could just copy it to a USB key. So he does that and he hates it. Why? When he's burning a CD he gets to arrange the tracks in the order he likes. The stereo plays MP3s in alphabetical order. The time saved from not having to burn CDs is now wasted on having to rename MP3s into the proper order. Yeah, whatever works for you.