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Having watched other coverage, some more takeaways: - Nvidia doesn't give board partners real drivers until they are public. Which is why evga 3090's were bric

by bisby 4y ago

Having watched other coverage, some more takeaways: - Nvidia doesn't give board partners real drivers until they are public. Which is why evga 3090's were bricking themselves at launch, they only had limited pre-release drivers. How can evga make a good product when they don't have dev tools to make the product? - Nvidia doesn't give retail partners prices or info at all until the public has the information, but requires order size estimates long before that. How can retailers predict sales volumes if they don't know price or performance? - Nvidia blacklisted Hardware Unboxed for giving the 3090 positive reviews, but they didn't talk about the proper talking points (8K gaming capability). They don't care about the review or increasing sales, they're actively the top performing GPU, they just care about controlling the narrative and being manipulative. AMD GPU's aren't as good. but Nvidia isn't SO much better that AMD is just full stop not an option. No company is your friend. But Nvidia seems to actively be an enemy to a lot of people, and they would be profitable even if they were nicer, they have the best product. Which means they are just actively bad people.

paulmd 4y ago
> Nvidia blacklisted Hardware Unboxed for giving the 3090 positive reviews, but they didn't talk about the proper talking points (8K gaming capability). erm, more like they got blacklisted because they have continually refused to talk about DLSS or raytracing, not because of 8K. Steve has outright said he doesn't think either of those are valuable features and he won't take them into consideration in the reviews. And DLSS 2.0 was well into the public consciousness at that point too, everyone knew it was much higher quality than the first iteration or other alternatives available on the market (still is better than FSR 2.0 too). So yeah, I imagine that NVIDIA wasn't too happy about an outlet who flaunted the fact that they were choosing to ignore a 30-40% performance and perf/w gain on what was slated to be a pretty broad selection of titles. That basically is a whole performance-segment worth of gain that HUB managed to downplay and minimize and spin. Similarly, on raytracing, even first-gen NVIDIA cards are twice as fast as AMD for a given performance segment. "Hybrid" titles tend to downplay this performance gap due to Amdahl's Law, if only half of your workload is RT then a 2x speed advantage only yields a 50% lead. But, for path-traced retro titles where the workload is 100% raytracing and 0% raster, NVIDIA performs about twice as fast, as do synthetic measurements of raytracing ability (and 3D rendering etc). They quickly walked back the blacklisting, probably someone had a bad day and snapped and committed the worst crime of all: saying what they really think. Because, to be honest this is nothing new for HUB, Tim's content is great but Steve is a bit of an AMD fanboy and it strongly leaks into the editorial positions and the things he chooses to review, which shape the numeric results as well. DLSS was persona-non-grata until FSR 2.0 came out and then it's "well DLSS is great but why not FSR!?". If he'd been saying the "dlss is great" for the preceding year then maybe it would have come off as good-faith, but, it was a shitty low-quality gimmick that nobody should use, up until AMD did something similar and wow it suddenly is great!. And that's just how Steve is, it'll be the same for raytracing... raytracing is just a fad, until AMD finally gets around to a proper high-performance implementation and then it'll be all raytracing all the time. He's constantly downplaying NVIDIA's work, and minimizing and spinning the weaknesses of AMD hardware, which has to be tremendously frustrating for the people at NVIDIA who are supposed to work with him. It's not a popular sentiment with the pro-AMD crowd, but, even among the enthusiast world in general there's growing sentiment that Steve is not on the level, in a way that few other prominent reviewers exhibit. But, you just flat-out won't review the card doing what it's designed to do? Yeah, not sure why NVIDIA would pay to give you a sample of that product, then. "Wow this semi truck sure has shitty track times, and I won't review the hauling capacity because that's just a gimmick, everybody uses minivans". (also, for the record, AMD has a history/pattern of blacklisting reviewers for critical reviews as well... happened to Kitguru a couple years ago, as well as TechOfTomorrow, for similar reasons... he wouldn't benchmark the hardware the way AMD wanted, so no hardware for him. he made a video about that too. Curiously, nobody keeps bringing that up, though...) https://www.kitguru.net/tech-news/announcements/zardon/amd-withdraw-kitguru-fury-x-sample-over-negative-content/ https://www.kitguru.net/tech-news/announcements/zardon/amd-w... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Qflrf6UiWk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Qflrf6UiWk
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- Gareth321 4y ago
  > erm, more like they got blacklisted because they have continually refused to talk about DLSS or raytracing, not because of 8K. Forgive me, but what is the problem here? Reviewers of all kinds focus on different things. Some GPU reviewers care more about FPS for certain games. Some care more about fidelity. Some care about power efficiency. People follow reviewers who focus on the stuff they care about. So this one guy was reviewing stuff which he and his audience cares about. Because this didn’t make Nvidia look good (this time), it’s okay to blacklist him? Sorry, no, that’s crazy. If reviewers focused on the things manufacturers told them to, they’d be terrible reviewers. Manufacturers don’t have a right to favourable reviews.
- LilM_1985 4y ago
  I agree, Steve is very much an AMD fanboy. When I called them out with him complaining about AMD not supporting certain models of motherboards such as the B350s and cheaper hardware, I pointed out that AMD never said they would and their wording was only for current X570/X470 and B550 and B450 boards at the time. Not the older stuff cause it just wasnt doable. He lost his shit at me in the comments of the video and proceeded to say how wrong I was and AMD had promised him that they would support all mother boards into the next generation (Zen 3). I still watch their channel but that argument left me some bitter moments with Steve. I agree with his take on Userbenchmark as that site is a piece of shit but it also seems that Steve is turning into Userbenchmark AMD version given his numbers always seem to be topping intel over compared to other reviewers like GN. He claims he is unbiased but his review titles and thumbnails say otherwise. The guy just seems like an overall douchebag who gets butthurt when anyone critizes his favorite brand. (P.S I own an AMD system lol, 3700x here.)
snvzz 4y ago
>AMD GPU's aren't as good Do people still believe this? I wonder what it'll take. RDNA3's soon and should be interesting to see happen.
- dolni 4y ago
  I run Linux at home. I have heard people say over and over that AMD is king on Linux. I have a 6900XT and while it performs well, the driver is actually shit. I have had issues with one or more of my three displays not starting on boot, or not waking up from monitor poweroff. Pinning the kernel to an older version seems to keep things stable. I was dealing with that sort of breakage what seemed like once a month for a year.
  - LtdJorge 4y ago
    Should have contacted bridgman from RTG on Reddit. He's very helpful with driver issues, and if what you are seeing is a bug, he will collect the info on it and study it with the team.
    - account42 4y ago
      Seriously, one of the best things about the AMD Linux drivers is that you have direct access to the developers including a public bug tracker [0] and IRC [1]. Maybe not the kind of customer support people are used to but I honestly prefer this. [0] https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/drm/amd/-/issues https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/drm/amd/-/issues (I think this is the correct one now that FDO migrated away from https://bugs.freedesktop.org/ https://bugs.freedesktop.org/) [1] #radeon on OFTC - https://people.freedesktop.org/~cbrill/dri-log/?channel=radeon https://people.freedesktop.org/~cbrill/dri-log/?channel=rade...
  - tpxl 4y ago
    Aren't AMD GPU drivers known to be unreliable on linux at launch and stabilize later on? I have similar issues with my 1080Ti by the way, it just wont recognize one or two screens and will mess up the display configuration if I turn one of them off. Going into display settings, applying a new configuration and reverting it usually helps.

by bisby 4y ago

paulmd 4y ago

> Nvidia blacklisted Hardware Unboxed for giving the 3090 positive reviews, but they didn't talk about the proper talking points (8K gaming capability). erm, more like they got blacklisted because they have continually refused to talk about DLSS or raytracing, not because of 8K. Steve has outright said he doesn't think either of those are valuable features and he won't take them into consideration in the reviews. And DLSS 2.0 was well into the public consciousness at that point too, everyone knew it was much higher quality than the first iteration or other alternatives available on the market (still is better than FSR 2.0 too). So yeah, I imagine that NVIDIA wasn't too happy about an outlet who flaunted the fact that they were choosing to ignore a 30-40% performance and perf/w gain on what was slated to be a pretty broad selection of titles. That basically is a whole performance-segment worth of gain that HUB managed to downplay and minimize and spin. Similarly, on raytracing, even first-gen NVIDIA cards are twice as fast as AMD for a given performance segment. "Hybrid" titles tend to downplay this performance gap due to Amdahl's Law, if only half of your workload is RT then a 2x speed advantage only yields a 50% lead. But, for path-traced retro titles where the workload is 100% raytracing and 0% raster, NVIDIA performs about twice as fast, as do synthetic measurements of raytracing ability (and 3D rendering etc). They quickly walked back the blacklisting, probably someone had a bad day and snapped and committed the worst crime of all: saying what they really think. Because, to be honest this is nothing new for HUB, Tim's content is great but Steve is a bit of an AMD fanboy and it strongly leaks into the editorial positions and the things he chooses to review, which shape the numeric results as well. DLSS was persona-non-grata until FSR 2.0 came out and then it's "well DLSS is great but why not FSR!?". If he'd been saying the "dlss is great" for the preceding year then maybe it would have come off as good-faith, but, it was a shitty low-quality gimmick that nobody should use, up until AMD did something similar and wow it suddenly is great!. And that's just how Steve is, it'll be the same for raytracing... raytracing is just a fad, until AMD finally gets around to a proper high-performance implementation and then it'll be all raytracing all the time. He's constantly downplaying NVIDIA's work, and minimizing and spinning the weaknesses of AMD hardware, which has to be tremendously frustrating for the people at NVIDIA who are supposed to work with him. It's not a popular sentiment with the pro-AMD crowd, but, even among the enthusiast world in general there's growing sentiment that Steve is not on the level, in a way that few other prominent reviewers exhibit. But, you just flat-out won't review the card doing what it's designed to do? Yeah, not sure why NVIDIA would pay to give you a sample of that product, then. "Wow this semi truck sure has shitty track times, and I won't review the hauling capacity because that's just a gimmick, everybody uses minivans". (also, for the record, AMD has a history/pattern of blacklisting reviewers for critical reviews as well... happened to Kitguru a couple years ago, as well as TechOfTomorrow, for similar reasons... he wouldn't benchmark the hardware the way AMD wanted, so no hardware for him. he made a video about that too. Curiously, nobody keeps bringing that up, though...) https://www.kitguru.net/tech-news/announcements/zardon/amd-withdraw-kitguru-fury-x-sample-over-negative-content/ https://www.kitguru.net/tech-news/announcements/zardon/amd-w... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Qflrf6UiWk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Qflrf6UiWk

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
Gareth321 4y ago
> erm, more like they got blacklisted because they have continually refused to talk about DLSS or raytracing, not because of 8K. Forgive me, but what is the problem here? Reviewers of all kinds focus on different things. Some GPU reviewers care more about FPS for certain games. Some care more about fidelity. Some care about power efficiency. People follow reviewers who focus on the stuff they care about. So this one guy was reviewing stuff which he and his audience cares about. Because this didn’t make Nvidia look good (this time), it’s okay to blacklist him? Sorry, no, that’s crazy. If reviewers focused on the things manufacturers told them to, they’d be terrible reviewers. Manufacturers don’t have a right to favourable reviews.
LilM_1985 4y ago
I agree, Steve is very much an AMD fanboy. When I called them out with him complaining about AMD not supporting certain models of motherboards such as the B350s and cheaper hardware, I pointed out that AMD never said they would and their wording was only for current X570/X470 and B550 and B450 boards at the time. Not the older stuff cause it just wasnt doable. He lost his shit at me in the comments of the video and proceeded to say how wrong I was and AMD had promised him that they would support all mother boards into the next generation (Zen 3). I still watch their channel but that argument left me some bitter moments with Steve. I agree with his take on Userbenchmark as that site is a piece of shit but it also seems that Steve is turning into Userbenchmark AMD version given his numbers always seem to be topping intel over compared to other reviewers like GN. He claims he is unbiased but his review titles and thumbnails say otherwise. The guy just seems like an overall douchebag who gets butthurt when anyone critizes his favorite brand. (P.S I own an AMD system lol, 3700x here.)

snvzz 4y ago

>AMD GPU's aren't as good Do people still believe this? I wonder what it'll take. RDNA3's soon and should be interesting to see happen.

dolni 4y ago
I run Linux at home. I have heard people say over and over that AMD is king on Linux. I have a 6900XT and while it performs well, the driver is actually shit. I have had issues with one or more of my three displays not starting on boot, or not waking up from monitor poweroff. Pinning the kernel to an older version seems to keep things stable. I was dealing with that sort of breakage what seemed like once a month for a year.
- LtdJorge 4y ago
  Should have contacted bridgman from RTG on Reddit. He's very helpful with driver issues, and if what you are seeing is a bug, he will collect the info on it and study it with the team.
  - account42 4y ago
    Seriously, one of the best things about the AMD Linux drivers is that you have direct access to the developers including a public bug tracker [0] and IRC [1]. Maybe not the kind of customer support people are used to but I honestly prefer this. [0] https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/drm/amd/-/issues https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/drm/amd/-/issues (I think this is the correct one now that FDO migrated away from https://bugs.freedesktop.org/ https://bugs.freedesktop.org/) [1] #radeon on OFTC - https://people.freedesktop.org/~cbrill/dri-log/?channel=radeon https://people.freedesktop.org/~cbrill/dri-log/?channel=rade...
- tpxl 4y ago
  Aren't AMD GPU drivers known to be unreliable on linux at launch and stabilize later on? I have similar issues with my 1080Ti by the way, it just wont recognize one or two screens and will mess up the display configuration if I turn one of them off. Going into display settings, applying a new configuration and reverting it usually helps.