5 ms·

I was introducing a jargon word that some readers would not be familiar with in an aside, so “so-called” is a flag to readers that food desert is a term of art

I was introducing a jargon word that some readers would not be familiar with in an aside, so “so-called” is a flag to readers that food desert is a term of art they can look up if they want. The comment is specifically that people who are not often considered intellectuals/researchers/etc, who have titles like Real Estate Acquisition Specialist, have a much higher fidelity understanding of the issue of access than the people society believe are largely the responsible voices regarding access issues. This was in the context of an extended discussion about how e.g. regulators with an access mandate care about maps but that is insufficient.

tomjakubowski 4y ago
OK, I see that I read a little too much into that "so-called". Thanks for clarifying.
- Jill_the_Pill 4y ago
  Also the term "food desert" is already being replaced by "food apartheid," which better highlights the structures and decisions behind the phenomenon.
  - zmgsabst 4y ago
    How does “food apartheid” better describe the situation?
    - ceejayoz 4y ago
      "Desert" implies force of nature. "Apartheid" implies human action.
      - zmgsabst 4y ago
        How is the decision of businesses on where to have stores like “apartheid”?
        ceejayoz 4y ago
        Those decisions are based heavily on the knock-on impacts of things like https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Redlining https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Redlining.
        formerkrogemp 4y ago
        Fascinating. I knew of this in general but never had a term to attach to it. Thanks the link.
gammarator 4y ago
Fwiw to this reader it read as distracting snark and peripheral to your overall point. Edit: if you simply wanted to flag “food desert” as a term of art, enclosing it in quotes would have been best. Your “so-called” implies that you are casting doubt on their existence.
- secabeen 4y ago
  Agreed. I also didn't see any useful connection as to how the information that the Real Estate Acquisition Specialists (REAS) have would actually generate more understanding of food access between different communities. Yes, the REAS for Stamford, CT is going to know a lot about access in Stamford, but almost nothing about access in Detroit, MI. Since the goal is to compare access across the country, using as-the-crow-flies data is preferred because it's universal and obtainable by a small research lab. The alternative is what, to interview a REAS from each of the 100 largest cities in the US, somehow convert their personal anecdotal knowledge into quantified data, and then use that to better understand access? Expertise on a subject in one specific area doesn't necessarily translate to expertise in the general concept.
  - patio11 4y ago
    The REAS is local to the community. They work for the real estate developer, not for the HQ at the bank, which decided “We need 10 new branches in Chicago but eff if we know where they go; bring me proposals for corners you think you could get under contract.” The reason they’re better at this than a professor is a bit controversial but I will own up to saying it: banks actually care about people using their branches and need to design systems which will correctly site those branches. Professors need to design systems which get their papers cited. Making accurate observations about reality is not necessarily required.
    - secabeen 4y ago
      Right, okay. I still think this is a bit of straw man. Professors don't generally claim to be an experts in local community access, so criticizing them for not being good at it doesn't help. Their focus is necessarily on publishing, and in making claims about access broadly that can be tested, or that can advance the field and be responded to, or cited. "A grocery store on the corner of 24th and Main would help food access a lot and be quite successful" is not really a great research paper; but it is very useful to a business development person. "Food access is a significant problem in socioeconomically disadvantaged areas" is a fairly good research paper, but not something that you could ask the REAS in Community X to do for any area beyond Community X. In the end, I think my question would be this. Let's take as true that Professors aren't all that accurate in their assessments of some issue, and that in their communities, REASs are more likely to be accurate in similar assessments. What then? How can we easily take that accurate, anecdotal REAS data, and turn it into broad comparative data that lets us better understand the problem nationwide?

tomjakubowski 4y ago

OK, I see that I read a little too much into that "so-called". Thanks for clarifying.

Jill_the_Pill 4y ago
Also the term "food desert" is already being replaced by "food apartheid," which better highlights the structures and decisions behind the phenomenon.
- zmgsabst 4y ago
  How does “food apartheid” better describe the situation?
  - ceejayoz 4y ago
    "Desert" implies force of nature. "Apartheid" implies human action.
    - zmgsabst 4y ago
      How is the decision of businesses on where to have stores like “apartheid”?
      - ceejayoz 4y ago
        Those decisions are based heavily on the knock-on impacts of things like https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Redlining https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Redlining.
        formerkrogemp 4y ago
        Fascinating. I knew of this in general but never had a term to attach to it. Thanks the link.

gammarator 4y ago

Fwiw to this reader it read as distracting snark and peripheral to your overall point. Edit: if you simply wanted to flag “food desert” as a term of art, enclosing it in quotes would have been best. Your “so-called” implies that you are casting doubt on their existence.

secabeen 4y ago
Agreed. I also didn't see any useful connection as to how the information that the Real Estate Acquisition Specialists (REAS) have would actually generate more understanding of food access between different communities. Yes, the REAS for Stamford, CT is going to know a lot about access in Stamford, but almost nothing about access in Detroit, MI. Since the goal is to compare access across the country, using as-the-crow-flies data is preferred because it's universal and obtainable by a small research lab. The alternative is what, to interview a REAS from each of the 100 largest cities in the US, somehow convert their personal anecdotal knowledge into quantified data, and then use that to better understand access? Expertise on a subject in one specific area doesn't necessarily translate to expertise in the general concept.
- patio11 4y ago
  The REAS is local to the community. They work for the real estate developer, not for the HQ at the bank, which decided “We need 10 new branches in Chicago but eff if we know where they go; bring me proposals for corners you think you could get under contract.” The reason they’re better at this than a professor is a bit controversial but I will own up to saying it: banks actually care about people using their branches and need to design systems which will correctly site those branches. Professors need to design systems which get their papers cited. Making accurate observations about reality is not necessarily required.
  - secabeen 4y ago
    Right, okay. I still think this is a bit of straw man. Professors don't generally claim to be an experts in local community access, so criticizing them for not being good at it doesn't help. Their focus is necessarily on publishing, and in making claims about access broadly that can be tested, or that can advance the field and be responded to, or cited. "A grocery store on the corner of 24th and Main would help food access a lot and be quite successful" is not really a great research paper; but it is very useful to a business development person. "Food access is a significant problem in socioeconomically disadvantaged areas" is a fairly good research paper, but not something that you could ask the REAS in Community X to do for any area beyond Community X. In the end, I think my question would be this. Let's take as true that Professors aren't all that accurate in their assessments of some issue, and that in their communities, REASs are more likely to be accurate in similar assessments. What then? How can we easily take that accurate, anecdotal REAS data, and turn it into broad comparative data that lets us better understand the problem nationwide?