4 ms·

> If I take something which doesn't belong to me, say from a store, and move it two blocks away and put it down, I would still be stealing right? No, not if yo

> If I take something which doesn't belong to me, say from a store, and move it two blocks away and put it down, I would still be stealing right? No, not if you don’t intend to deprive the rightful owner of it (although good luck convincing anyone that you lacked such intent). https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/theft https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/theft > Theft is the taking of another person’s personal property with the intent of depriving that person of the use of their property

abeppu 4y ago
Thank you for highlighting the key distinction and referencing a source with more information. > although good luck convincing anyone that you lacked such intent So it sounds like in the courtesy towing context, the city claims that it doesn't have any intent to deprive people of the use of their property, but it's behaving in a way which a reasonable person would totally anticipate would lead to people being unable to use their property (by dropping vehicles in locations which are never communicated to the owner).
- cmeacham98 4y ago
  Temporarily depriving somebody of their property counts, these towings are clearly theft. The actually interesting legal question revolves around who (if anybody) is liable in this situation.
  - School-Cotton 4y ago
    Do you have a source for that? My googling suggests the opposite.
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
    - cmeacham98 4y ago
      Sorry, I should have been more clear: it often isn't "theft" (or "larceny"), legally speaking, but it usually is some lesser crime under a name like "unauthorized use/borrowing" or "misappropriation". I'm not aware of any jurisdiction that doesn't have a law that covers unauthorized use of a motor vehicle, so I can practically guarantee it is illegal. In Philadelphia I believe the relevant statue is https://www.legis.state.pa.us/WU01/LI/LI/CT/HTM/18/00.039.028.000..HTM https://www.legis.state.pa.us/WU01/LI/LI/CT/HTM/18/00.039.02... - although I'm actually unsure if towing would count as "operating" here? That's a question for their lawyer.
- oneeyedpigeon 4y ago
  That's what I was thinking. I'm sure a good lawyer could argue that, if they have a reasonable way of informing the owner, but they don't do so, they are in fact intending to deprive them of the vehicle.

abeppu 4y ago

Thank you for highlighting the key distinction and referencing a source with more information. > although good luck convincing anyone that you lacked such intent So it sounds like in the courtesy towing context, the city claims that it doesn't have any intent to deprive people of the use of their property, but it's behaving in a way which a reasonable person would totally anticipate would lead to people being unable to use their property (by dropping vehicles in locations which are never communicated to the owner).

cmeacham98 4y ago
Temporarily depriving somebody of their property counts, these towings are clearly theft. The actually interesting legal question revolves around who (if anybody) is liable in this situation.
- School-Cotton 4y ago
  Do you have a source for that? My googling suggests the opposite.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - cmeacham98 4y ago
    Sorry, I should have been more clear: it often isn't "theft" (or "larceny"), legally speaking, but it usually is some lesser crime under a name like "unauthorized use/borrowing" or "misappropriation". I'm not aware of any jurisdiction that doesn't have a law that covers unauthorized use of a motor vehicle, so I can practically guarantee it is illegal. In Philadelphia I believe the relevant statue is https://www.legis.state.pa.us/WU01/LI/LI/CT/HTM/18/00.039.028.000..HTM https://www.legis.state.pa.us/WU01/LI/LI/CT/HTM/18/00.039.02... - although I'm actually unsure if towing would count as "operating" here? That's a question for their lawyer.
oneeyedpigeon 4y ago
That's what I was thinking. I'm sure a good lawyer could argue that, if they have a reasonable way of informing the owner, but they don't do so, they are in fact intending to deprive them of the vehicle.