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I mean this might have to do with something I would call socioeconomic background more than the color of someone's skin. The french philosopher Pierre Bourdieu
by atoav 4y ago
I mean this might have to do with something I would call socioeconomic background more than the color of someone's skin.
The french philosopher Pierre Bourdieu discribed multiple forms of "capital" any individual can accumulate in order to get successful:
- economic capital (actual money, houses etc)
- social capital (the contacts you have to people who can help you out)
- symbolic capital (your ability to simulate a certain socioeconomic status in a way so others belive you are also from their class of society — so the way you look, dress, speak, what music you listen to etc)
- cultural capital (the actual knowledge you accumulated by learning, reading, practise etc)
The more any individual has in each of these categories the easier success is going to be for them. Many of these categories have a huge inherited part as well. Even if your parents are poor academics for example they might teach you how to speak a certain upperclass language, have good contacts and cultural capital for example.
Black people in the US have had a (much, much) worse starting point in all of these capital forms and some of those deficits will effectively bar anybody from that socioeconomic background from studying, even if they are a very talented person.
Quotas like these are the recognition that existing cultural biases are instutionalized and you have to counterbalance them to a degree, just to make them fair.
If you ran a marathon and the guy next to you was not only held back for 30 minutes at the start, but also had to carry a bag of bricks and learn a new language while running (and none of that by his own choice), you'd hardly complain if the guy's run was judged in a different way than yours, or would you?
This is essentially what something like this boils down to. People from a poor socioeconomic background cannot lean onto their or their parents contacts (lack of social capital), they cannot lean on their or their parents money (lack of exonomical capital), they cannot lean on their sophisticated way of expression (lack of symbolic capital) — they in fact have to learn that new way of expressing themselves if they want to be taken seriously — and they cannot lean onto their cultural capital as people from rich educated families will naturally have a headstart here as well.
Societies with less steep socioeconomic divides tend to be safer, more productive and happier, so it is only rational.
- inglor_cz 4y agoSo, if you say that race-based policies are needed to smooth out differences in socioeconomic background, why not abandon them in favor of criteria based on actual socioeconomic background of the involved person? Thus switching a very loose proxy for the real deal? The current race-based policies consider Obama's daughters "marginalized" and an Ukrainian orphan "privileged". That is sort of awful and illogical.
- atoav 4y agoI am all for something like that, where feasible. Ot sure if such a progressive idea would be feasible in the US. I am sorry to say it this bluntly, but that would be like installing the TV set in a house before building a roof or making sure the foundation is not slipping down the hill. And I agree with your judgment about the observation you made, but I think one can always create better policy in that field, but the perfect should not be the enemy of the good here.
- thrown_22 4y agoThis is not good. This is terrible. The US is racist even when it tries not to be. Listening to Americans on how to solve racism is like listening to catholic nuns on how to deal with abortions.
- atoav 4y agoI agree again, I just think in the US the problems that would need solving run much, much deeper and have to do with something I'd call "anti-collectivist" culture. Individualism tuned up so far, it starts to become destructive: People that would rather hurt themselves than support others. As long as that kind of thinking is widespread in the US nearly none of the nice things will be possible.
- inglor_cz 4y agoIt would almost certainly be feasible in academia, whose values seem to significantly differ from the US median. But instead, top schools in the US are becoming even more entrenched as institutions for the rich, by the rich.
- PubliusMI 4y agoIt's literally the same words words words every time someone tries to justify racist policies.
- atoav 4y agoI am not justifying anything. What I did was to explain. Explaining someones reasoning doesn't necessarily mean one is of the same opinion.