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A formidable effort. It might be matter of taste but recommendations given starting from "Understanding the packages" and to "Install packages that need compil

by d0mine 15y ago

A formidable effort. It might be matter of taste but recommendations given starting from "Understanding the packages" and to "Install packages that need compiling" are almost harmful. My preference: * you should not care what is your `sys.path` looks like. You need it for debugging if something goes horribly wrong. A tutorial might mention it but things like `sys.path.insert(0,..)` should be avoided or accompanied with a big disclaimer (don't use nuclear weapons if you care about the future) * the same goes for `PYTHONPATH`. It is a hack that rarely needed * don't use `sudo pip`. System packages should be managed by a system packager. Use `pip --user` or create a `virtualenv` * `pip` can handle tarballs there is no need for `python setup.py install` in this case. "Code Like a Pythonista: Idiomatic Python" is worth mentioning http://python.net/~goodger/projects/pycon/2007/idiomatic/handout.html http://python.net/~goodger/projects/pycon/2007/idiomatic/han... Some third-party packages that could be listed (it is subjective): bpython - interactive prompt; something for tests e.g., pytest, tox, selenium; sphinx - docs; lxml - xml/html, werkzeug - if you talking about web-development; SQLAlchemy - sql; Cython - C extension, ~ Python syntax; async. libs e.g., gevent, Twisted.

mnazim 15y ago
My indented audience was not the pure beginners. I was targeting for developers coming to python from other platforms. Over past 2 years, if I have learned one thing while training interns, trainees and experience devs in Python/Django, it is that packaging confuses people a lot. apt-get vs easy_install vs pip. That is why I choose to spend most time on package management and virtualenv etc. I think, I should have included stronger indications of this. In general, your feedback is very good and important. Idiomatic Python specifically is an important resource and should have been included. I will incorporate your feedback as soon as I can squeeze out some time. Big Thanks!
- watmough 15y ago
  Great Pythonesque pun there! indented==intended, I'm sure.
  - mnazim 15y ago
    This happens to me all the time. My most favorite is when I have to type the word "important", my mind spells "I M P O R T A N T" but my fingers instinctively stop at "import".
    - mgedmin 15y ago
      My fingers often type "test" when I want to type "text".
jnbiche 15y ago
Yes, system packages should be managed by a system packager. Unfortunately, for Debian and/or Ubuntu, those packages are often a full version number behind the PyPi version (I'm guessing it's the same for RHL/Fedora). Be very careful using a system packager like apt-get or yum to install a package that is under active development. In that case, it's often better to install from source or use pip/easy_install. But yes, if it's not a system package, don't use sudo for security reasons (although PyPi is pretty safe).
njharman 15y ago
> System packages should be managed by a system packager. You shouldn't be using the system Python. Should compile from source and put in /opt/<name of company>/. And that shouldn't be owned by some random user. So, you should be using sudo.
- zokier 15y ago
  Building your own Python and using system package manager do not exclude each other. On the contrary, I'd even recommend installing your own built software with your systems package manager
gbog 15y ago
Agree with your points. Would add emphasis on ipython and heavy use of interpreter, pylint instead of pyflakes, "learn and prefer builtin modules" rule, and Python in a Nutshell on the desk.
- mgedmin 15y ago
  My reasons for preferring pyflakes over pylint: * pyflakes are fast * pyflakes is less likely to flood me with false positives What are your reasons for preferring pylint?

by d0mine 15y ago

mnazim 15y ago

My indented audience was not the pure beginners. I was targeting for developers coming to python from other platforms. Over past 2 years, if I have learned one thing while training interns, trainees and experience devs in Python/Django, it is that packaging confuses people a lot. apt-get vs easy_install vs pip. That is why I choose to spend most time on package management and virtualenv etc. I think, I should have included stronger indications of this. In general, your feedback is very good and important. Idiomatic Python specifically is an important resource and should have been included. I will incorporate your feedback as soon as I can squeeze out some time. Big Thanks!

watmough 15y ago
Great Pythonesque pun there! indented==intended, I'm sure.
- mnazim 15y ago
  This happens to me all the time. My most favorite is when I have to type the word "important", my mind spells "I M P O R T A N T" but my fingers instinctively stop at "import".
  - mgedmin 15y ago
    My fingers often type "test" when I want to type "text".

jnbiche 15y ago

Yes, system packages should be managed by a system packager. Unfortunately, for Debian and/or Ubuntu, those packages are often a full version number behind the PyPi version (I'm guessing it's the same for RHL/Fedora). Be very careful using a system packager like apt-get or yum to install a package that is under active development. In that case, it's often better to install from source or use pip/easy_install. But yes, if it's not a system package, don't use sudo for security reasons (although PyPi is pretty safe).

njharman 15y ago

> System packages should be managed by a system packager. You shouldn't be using the system Python. Should compile from source and put in /opt/<name of company>/. And that shouldn't be owned by some random user. So, you should be using sudo.

zokier 15y ago
Building your own Python and using system package manager do not exclude each other. On the contrary, I'd even recommend installing your own built software with your systems package manager

gbog 15y ago

Agree with your points. Would add emphasis on ipython and heavy use of interpreter, pylint instead of pyflakes, "learn and prefer builtin modules" rule, and Python in a Nutshell on the desk.

mgedmin 15y ago
My reasons for preferring pyflakes over pylint: * pyflakes are fast * pyflakes is less likely to flood me with false positives What are your reasons for preferring pylint?