5 ms·

You can’t play statistics with peoples lives. You can’t put out a drug because statistically it might help some while destroying a few. people don’t have the ti

by water8 4y ago

You can’t play statistics with peoples lives. You can’t put out a drug because statistically it might help some while destroying a few. people don’t have the time or know how to understand the risks and that’s why it is imperative that imperfect treatments be limited to experimental use only

virgildotcodes 4y ago
Is it your understanding that western medicine currently operates on this model of only allowing perfect drugs and treatments to exist? What of all the side effects, many life-threatening, of drugs and treatments available on the market?
- water8 4y ago
  When you take antibiotics and they don’t work, they don’t destroy your entire motivational system for the rest your life. They don’t mentally castrate you
ajmurmann 4y ago
Don't many/most drugs have known side effects and we literally are "playing statistics" with the tradeoff between the good the drug does on one hand and rare, sometimes fatal side effects on the other hand?
- water8 4y ago
  When you take antibiotics, are you playing statistics with your life no. The antibiotics themselves will not kill you. you guys are substituting strawman side effects for mental castration should it go wrong?
  - ajmurmann 4y ago
    Quick Google: "Every year, there are more than 140,000 emergency department visits for reactions to antibiotics. Almost four out of five emergency department visits for antibiotic-related side effects are due to an allergic reaction. These reactions can range from mild rashes and itching to serious blistering skin reactions, swelling of the face and throat, and breathing problems." "C. difficile is a type of bacteria (germ) that causes diarrhea linked to at least 14,000 American deaths each year. When you take antibiotics, good bacteria that protect against infection are destroyed for several months. During this time, you can get sick from C. difficile. The bacteria can be picked up from contaminated surfaces or spread from the healthcare environment. People, especially older adults, are most at risk who take antibiotics and also get medical care." -https://my.clevelandclinic.org/health/drugs/16386-antibiotics https://my.clevelandclinic.org/health/drugs/16386-antibiotic... Meanwhile 150 people anually die of Tylenol: https://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2013/09/150-americans-die-each-year-from-tylenols-most-active-ingredient/310814/ https://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2013/09/150-ame...
amalcon 4y ago
Penicillin (along with every other antibiotic) is a deeply imperfect treatment in many ways (sub-100% effectiveness, deadly allergies, other side effects). It's also one of the most potent life-saving inventions in history. If the relevant regulatory bodies were run this way, we'd have almost none of modern medicine.
- water8 4y ago
  no penicillin doesn’t kill people. It’s the allergic reaction that kills people. A person who does not have an allergy to penicillin yet has never taken penicillin has no fear of dying from it.
  - BurningFrog 4y ago
    "It's not the fall that kills you, it's the landing"
chaps 4y ago
Please reread my post. My use of "perfect" was in terms of the effects -- as in, a 100% reduction of methamphetamine's effects, such that it'd be reasonable to call it a "perfect" drug. Not in terms of safety, nor rolling die for people's lives. Though I suppose you'd be "playing statistics on with people's lives" on a drug that has a 75% effect as opposed to a 100% (ie, perfect) effect. Since the drug isn't as effective as expected, treatment as a whole isn't as effective, so deaths will happen. A statistically better outcome overall, but still a "statistical game" as you call it.
- water8 4y ago
  Tell me one drug that kills people and people are like “ehhh it happens every now and then” that’s FDA approved
  - chaps 4y ago
    No need for this hostile, bad faith sort of argumentation. Let me restate your question: "Tell me one drug that has a known risk of death that, in-line with the article, is used to treat addiction that's approved by the FDA." Methadone.
  - hirvi74 4y ago
    Opioids
    - water8 4y ago
      touche

by water8 4y ago

virgildotcodes 4y ago

Is it your understanding that western medicine currently operates on this model of only allowing perfect drugs and treatments to exist? What of all the side effects, many life-threatening, of drugs and treatments available on the market?

water8 4y ago
When you take antibiotics and they don’t work, they don’t destroy your entire motivational system for the rest your life. They don’t mentally castrate you

ajmurmann 4y ago

Don't many/most drugs have known side effects and we literally are "playing statistics" with the tradeoff between the good the drug does on one hand and rare, sometimes fatal side effects on the other hand?

water8 4y ago
When you take antibiotics, are you playing statistics with your life no. The antibiotics themselves will not kill you. you guys are substituting strawman side effects for mental castration should it go wrong?
- ajmurmann 4y ago
  Quick Google: "Every year, there are more than 140,000 emergency department visits for reactions to antibiotics. Almost four out of five emergency department visits for antibiotic-related side effects are due to an allergic reaction. These reactions can range from mild rashes and itching to serious blistering skin reactions, swelling of the face and throat, and breathing problems." "C. difficile is a type of bacteria (germ) that causes diarrhea linked to at least 14,000 American deaths each year. When you take antibiotics, good bacteria that protect against infection are destroyed for several months. During this time, you can get sick from C. difficile. The bacteria can be picked up from contaminated surfaces or spread from the healthcare environment. People, especially older adults, are most at risk who take antibiotics and also get medical care." -https://my.clevelandclinic.org/health/drugs/16386-antibiotics https://my.clevelandclinic.org/health/drugs/16386-antibiotic... Meanwhile 150 people anually die of Tylenol: https://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2013/09/150-americans-die-each-year-from-tylenols-most-active-ingredient/310814/ https://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2013/09/150-ame...

amalcon 4y ago

Penicillin (along with every other antibiotic) is a deeply imperfect treatment in many ways (sub-100% effectiveness, deadly allergies, other side effects). It's also one of the most potent life-saving inventions in history. If the relevant regulatory bodies were run this way, we'd have almost none of modern medicine.

water8 4y ago
no penicillin doesn’t kill people. It’s the allergic reaction that kills people. A person who does not have an allergy to penicillin yet has never taken penicillin has no fear of dying from it.
- BurningFrog 4y ago
  "It's not the fall that kills you, it's the landing"

chaps 4y ago

Please reread my post. My use of "perfect" was in terms of the effects -- as in, a 100% reduction of methamphetamine's effects, such that it'd be reasonable to call it a "perfect" drug. Not in terms of safety, nor rolling die for people's lives. Though I suppose you'd be "playing statistics on with people's lives" on a drug that has a 75% effect as opposed to a 100% (ie, perfect) effect. Since the drug isn't as effective as expected, treatment as a whole isn't as effective, so deaths will happen. A statistically better outcome overall, but still a "statistical game" as you call it.

water8 4y ago
Tell me one drug that kills people and people are like “ehhh it happens every now and then” that’s FDA approved
- chaps 4y ago
  No need for this hostile, bad faith sort of argumentation. Let me restate your question: "Tell me one drug that has a known risk of death that, in-line with the article, is used to treat addiction that's approved by the FDA." Methadone.
- hirvi74 4y ago
  Opioids
  - water8 4y ago
    touche