5 ms·

They only control what we voluntarily give them. Social media controls nothing of importance in my life.

BlargMcLarg 4y ago
Emphasis 'we', not 'my'. These guys are already making shadow profiles out of info given by friends, corporations, etc. Not participating is also causing red flags in certain circles. Withstanding peer pressure is one thing, having your identity made up or flagged out of your control is another. This is a slippery slope that should be tackled before it gets to that. The only people not affected indirectly, are the people who will die without children or younger cohorts as friends.
- root_axis 4y ago
  > These guys are already making shadow profiles out of info given by friends, corporations, etc. True, it's a shady practice indeed, but signing up and giving them even more information directly from the source is obviously far worse than the fraction of signals they can extract from your friends. > Not participating is also causing red flags in certain circles. There's no accounting for the peculiarities of social groups, you could say the same thing about refusing to smoke weed or drink alcohol, it doesn't mean those vices are vital, and social media is no different.
  - BlargMcLarg 4y ago
    I don't think you fully grasp what the slope is sliding to. There are enough token anecdotes of companies doing background checks on social media, and will actively flag individuals for having zero presence. We also have social credit score horror stories. Your answer doesn't work anymore when lack of participation is considered wrong. We should be blocking that instead of assuming things will just work out forever as long as individuals guard their identity. Again, this goes beyond just standing up against peer pressure.
    - root_axis 4y ago
      > There are enough token anecdotes of companies doing background checks on social media, and will actively flag individuals for having zero presence. I'm sure it happens, but I don't believe that to be a real issue since using the presence of a social media account as a filtering tool for hiring is obviously ridiculous, and as someone who has done a lot of hiring, it's completely absurd to imagine we'd ever turn away a good candidate because their name didn't hit on a social media search, especially because it's very common for people to use nicknames or false names on social media or to completely remove their account from search altogether. I also don't see the peer pressure thing as an issue. Adults don't meaningfully peer pressure other adults to use social media, nobody cares, and kids will peer pressure for everything from video games to sex and drugs, but it's pretty obvious that being peer pressured to do drugs isn't a valid reason to use drugs.
      - BlargMcLarg 4y ago
        I'm not sure why you circle back to peer pressure when we agree it isn't an issue. Are you reading past the comments? >it's completely absurd to imagine we'd ever turn away a good candidate because their name didn't hit on a social media search, Understand for a moment many of these people are not developers with well-established CVs. These are normal people working the bottom of the ladder where there are plenty of replacements, and the answer to being irreplaceable is effectively 'start becoming a prodigy, establish a network early or be lucky'. Often too late for them. Even that advice alone is insane for the yet-to-be-born given a virtually global mental health crisis. Leaving things up to executives behaving in a sane manner has given us multiple global problems to deal with. I wouldn't count on their sanity to prevent another.
        root_axis 4y ago
        > I'm not sure why you circle back to peer pressure when we agree it isn't an issue. You're the one bringing it up. You've mentioned peer pressure in all of your replies. > Understand for a moment many of these people are not developers with well-established CVs It doesn't matter the industry or the CV, the idea that the absence of a social media account factors into hiring decisions in any real way doesn't make sense.
dotnet00 4y ago
Unless you don't interact with anyone, that's a completely untenable position due to network effects. eg My family (spread around the world) uses WhatsApp for communicating with each other, which I'm not much of a fan of but it's pretty much impossible to get them over to another platform given that I don't live anywhere near them anymore to teach them and they have to use it anyway for communicating within their residential community etc. Sure technically I'm not being coerced into using WhatsApp, but it isn't exactly reasonable to say that if I really cared I would just not talk to my family until they figure out how to use a platform I prefer.
- root_axis 4y ago
  WhatsApp isn't social media, it's a messaging app, but more critically it's based on phone numbers, so WhatsApp really has no control over access to your contacts. > Unless you don't interact with anyone, that's a completely untenable position due to network effects It doesn't have to be this way though. Between sms, email, telegram, signal, and discord I have communication channels to every person I actually care about, and it's trivial to bridge additional layers of communication if needed. > it's pretty much impossible to get them over to another platform I hear where you're coming from, but in my view this is an intentionally defeatist attitude. We're throwing up our hands and saying "social media owns us and there's nothing we can do, it's just too hard to install another app". In reality, if it's important, it's not that hard. There's no disputing that social media is convenient, but it isn't vital.
  - dotnet00 4y ago
    I am aware that WhatsApp isn't social media, it's just an example of an app I would ideally like to switch away from. I'm not really sure how it's defeatist when trying even to only get myself off the app would require making things much harder for my relatively tech illiterate parents on the other side of the world with no tech literate relative to lean on to help them out. With Whatsapp they've used it for a few years and can easily get help from any young neighbor in case of issues. It isn't like I'm not trying. For example, for communicating with some close fairly tech literate friends, we go through a relatively big effort to host and maintain our ideal of a self-hosted Matrix and Misskey node. But there we can manage it due to everyone in the group being able to at least describe the errors they run into.
illuminerdy 4y ago
I haven't used Facebook or Twitter in well over a decade. Nothing is more freeing than not having to put up with entitled, whiny idiots who think they are the moral authority on pretty much everything in the world. Especially since most of them couldn't accurately point to country that isn't America on a map.
_yb2s 4y ago
I hate social media, and use it as little as possible, but can't figure out how to do what you are saying here in practice without total social isolation in the real world outside of social media. For example, there are several sports I participate in (physically, in real life) but these are organized on either Instagram or Facebook. I have created accounts solely to access this information (date/time of events). Facebook and Instagram are constantly disabling and blocking my accounts, apparently because my low engagement (zero posts, only "lurking") triggers some sort of bot detector algorithm. I have no recourse, and can't contact anyone at Meta about this. I've tried getting these communities to inform me outside of facebook/instagram, but it's too big of an ask. These mediums work for everyone else except me, and the people involved lack the tech savvy or interest in trying to find an alternative.
- swayvil 4y ago
  You are being punished for not "engaging" enough. Wow. I mean I imagined. So it really is a thing. Like that black mirror episode where you aren't allowed to close your eyes when there's a commercial on.
seer-zig 4y ago
Yet, it has a huge influence on spreading certain ideologies. The effect does not have to be direct.

Emphasis 'we', not 'my'. These guys are already making shadow profiles out of info given by friends, corporations, etc. Not participating is also causing red flags in certain circles. Withstanding peer pressure is one thing, having your identity made up or flagged out of your control is another. This is a slippery slope that should be tackled before it gets to that. The only people not affected indirectly, are the people who will die without children or younger cohorts as friends.

root_axis 4y ago
> These guys are already making shadow profiles out of info given by friends, corporations, etc. True, it's a shady practice indeed, but signing up and giving them even more information directly from the source is obviously far worse than the fraction of signals they can extract from your friends. > Not participating is also causing red flags in certain circles. There's no accounting for the peculiarities of social groups, you could say the same thing about refusing to smoke weed or drink alcohol, it doesn't mean those vices are vital, and social media is no different.
- BlargMcLarg 4y ago
  I don't think you fully grasp what the slope is sliding to. There are enough token anecdotes of companies doing background checks on social media, and will actively flag individuals for having zero presence. We also have social credit score horror stories. Your answer doesn't work anymore when lack of participation is considered wrong. We should be blocking that instead of assuming things will just work out forever as long as individuals guard their identity. Again, this goes beyond just standing up against peer pressure.
  - root_axis 4y ago
    > There are enough token anecdotes of companies doing background checks on social media, and will actively flag individuals for having zero presence. I'm sure it happens, but I don't believe that to be a real issue since using the presence of a social media account as a filtering tool for hiring is obviously ridiculous, and as someone who has done a lot of hiring, it's completely absurd to imagine we'd ever turn away a good candidate because their name didn't hit on a social media search, especially because it's very common for people to use nicknames or false names on social media or to completely remove their account from search altogether. I also don't see the peer pressure thing as an issue. Adults don't meaningfully peer pressure other adults to use social media, nobody cares, and kids will peer pressure for everything from video games to sex and drugs, but it's pretty obvious that being peer pressured to do drugs isn't a valid reason to use drugs.
    - BlargMcLarg 4y ago
      I'm not sure why you circle back to peer pressure when we agree it isn't an issue. Are you reading past the comments? >it's completely absurd to imagine we'd ever turn away a good candidate because their name didn't hit on a social media search, Understand for a moment many of these people are not developers with well-established CVs. These are normal people working the bottom of the ladder where there are plenty of replacements, and the answer to being irreplaceable is effectively 'start becoming a prodigy, establish a network early or be lucky'. Often too late for them. Even that advice alone is insane for the yet-to-be-born given a virtually global mental health crisis. Leaving things up to executives behaving in a sane manner has given us multiple global problems to deal with. I wouldn't count on their sanity to prevent another.
      - root_axis 4y ago
        > I'm not sure why you circle back to peer pressure when we agree it isn't an issue. You're the one bringing it up. You've mentioned peer pressure in all of your replies. > Understand for a moment many of these people are not developers with well-established CVs It doesn't matter the industry or the CV, the idea that the absence of a social media account factors into hiring decisions in any real way doesn't make sense.

dotnet00 4y ago

Unless you don't interact with anyone, that's a completely untenable position due to network effects. eg My family (spread around the world) uses WhatsApp for communicating with each other, which I'm not much of a fan of but it's pretty much impossible to get them over to another platform given that I don't live anywhere near them anymore to teach them and they have to use it anyway for communicating within their residential community etc. Sure technically I'm not being coerced into using WhatsApp, but it isn't exactly reasonable to say that if I really cared I would just not talk to my family until they figure out how to use a platform I prefer.

root_axis 4y ago
WhatsApp isn't social media, it's a messaging app, but more critically it's based on phone numbers, so WhatsApp really has no control over access to your contacts. > Unless you don't interact with anyone, that's a completely untenable position due to network effects It doesn't have to be this way though. Between sms, email, telegram, signal, and discord I have communication channels to every person I actually care about, and it's trivial to bridge additional layers of communication if needed. > it's pretty much impossible to get them over to another platform I hear where you're coming from, but in my view this is an intentionally defeatist attitude. We're throwing up our hands and saying "social media owns us and there's nothing we can do, it's just too hard to install another app". In reality, if it's important, it's not that hard. There's no disputing that social media is convenient, but it isn't vital.
- dotnet00 4y ago
  I am aware that WhatsApp isn't social media, it's just an example of an app I would ideally like to switch away from. I'm not really sure how it's defeatist when trying even to only get myself off the app would require making things much harder for my relatively tech illiterate parents on the other side of the world with no tech literate relative to lean on to help them out. With Whatsapp they've used it for a few years and can easily get help from any young neighbor in case of issues. It isn't like I'm not trying. For example, for communicating with some close fairly tech literate friends, we go through a relatively big effort to host and maintain our ideal of a self-hosted Matrix and Misskey node. But there we can manage it due to everyone in the group being able to at least describe the errors they run into.

illuminerdy 4y ago

I haven't used Facebook or Twitter in well over a decade. Nothing is more freeing than not having to put up with entitled, whiny idiots who think they are the moral authority on pretty much everything in the world. Especially since most of them couldn't accurately point to country that isn't America on a map.

_yb2s 4y ago

I hate social media, and use it as little as possible, but can't figure out how to do what you are saying here in practice without total social isolation in the real world outside of social media. For example, there are several sports I participate in (physically, in real life) but these are organized on either Instagram or Facebook. I have created accounts solely to access this information (date/time of events). Facebook and Instagram are constantly disabling and blocking my accounts, apparently because my low engagement (zero posts, only "lurking") triggers some sort of bot detector algorithm. I have no recourse, and can't contact anyone at Meta about this. I've tried getting these communities to inform me outside of facebook/instagram, but it's too big of an ask. These mediums work for everyone else except me, and the people involved lack the tech savvy or interest in trying to find an alternative.

swayvil 4y ago
You are being punished for not "engaging" enough. Wow. I mean I imagined. So it really is a thing. Like that black mirror episode where you aren't allowed to close your eyes when there's a commercial on.

seer-zig 4y ago

Yet, it has a huge influence on spreading certain ideologies. The effect does not have to be direct.