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There's no guarantee that'll stay will stay without ads. In fact, I think that's extremely improbable. The need for infinite growth is definitionally insatiable

There's no guarantee that'll stay will stay without ads. In fact, I think that's extremely improbable. The need for infinite growth is definitionally insatiable. Part of what they're doing now isn't just to show more ads, but to drive people into Premium. Once they have enough people on Premium, then they can break it up into more tiers, adding ads to some. When enough people are using Premium (because Free has become completely useless and pointless) they can just remove the Premium tiers with no ads and "simplify" the entire thing: i.e. you paying Premium price for what Free YouTube with ads is right now.

SllX 4y ago
I would have no problem cancelling or paying more. I’m not commenting on a hypothetical future though, I’m commenting on what I think the best way to enjoy YouTube without ads is today.
- guerrilla 4y ago
  The best way is an uBlock Origin and SponsorBlock. Why would you get that result AND pay. That's irrational.
  - SllX 4y ago
    Because YouTube is fundamentally a good business with excellent entertainment value that has brought me joy for 17 years and I can afford to pay, and YouTubers who make it their job to upload videos still end up getting paid if I watch a video with Premium. I think it would be irrational and immoral to use the service as much as I do, for music, hobbies, education and business and not pay for it. Then I’m not stuck using only one browser with one set of extensions; all of which I have to keep updated, and engaged in an arms race–but in fact have full access on my phone, iPad, computer and TV without ads. I’ve been in that arms race back when I had more time than money, and I don’t want to be in it again.
    - guerrilla 4y ago
      They don't need you, or anyone's help. You're just screwing yourself. I think it's irrational and immoral for YouTube not to be commons at this point. The rest of what you said doesn't exist as a problem, no end-user cares about any of that because it involves no actual work or activity of any kind.
      - SllX 4y ago
        Agree to disagree. I think you have a much more mercenary attitude than I do in just taking what you want and our POVs are not reconcilable.
        guerrilla 4y ago
        That was a dismissive and disrespectful comment. I told you what my attitude is, so don't just ignore that and then proceed to tell me what my attitude is. No, using Wikipedia as we all do is not a "much more mercenary attitude", it's just commons, as all globally shared infrastructure should be. Your morality is just inconsistent.
        SllX 4y ago
        You don’t build a business with real infrastructure without money and a value proposition. YouTube isn’t a non-profit, and society isn’t entitled to take what they want from it without acknowledging and respecting the terms YouTube makes its infrastructure available. There are other outlets for more “commons”-like tube experiences, notably PeerTube. The value is in YouTube though, and I know that bothers some people, but it doesn’t bother me. I’m not screwing myself by paying them for a subscription: it’s called trade. They have stuff I want, I have stuff they want. If I value something, I pay for it or trade for it (e.g. Wikipedia, the Internet Archive, all private property by the way, somebody owns their servers too, they’re just a different type of corporation). I think it is fairly mercenary to take a moral stance against paying money for something that you like. I know that there are people I watch who make their livings through YouTube, some of whom are buying houses or getting married because they’re able to with this income; and for others, it’s just a side gig or a hobby. They’re not getting paid when you Adblock, but they are getting paid for the aggregate views that I and others give them. If you think our views aren’t un-reconcilable, don’t tell me that I’m being irrational or that I’m “screwing myself” by paying for something I want to see continue to exist simply because I’m not bothered by the idea of people taking profits. If you can’t do that, then take my offer to agree to disagree. I’m not bothered by your outlook, but I don’t share it in common with you.

SllX 4y ago

I would have no problem cancelling or paying more. I’m not commenting on a hypothetical future though, I’m commenting on what I think the best way to enjoy YouTube without ads is today.

guerrilla 4y ago
The best way is an uBlock Origin and SponsorBlock. Why would you get that result AND pay. That's irrational.
- SllX 4y ago
  Because YouTube is fundamentally a good business with excellent entertainment value that has brought me joy for 17 years and I can afford to pay, and YouTubers who make it their job to upload videos still end up getting paid if I watch a video with Premium. I think it would be irrational and immoral to use the service as much as I do, for music, hobbies, education and business and not pay for it. Then I’m not stuck using only one browser with one set of extensions; all of which I have to keep updated, and engaged in an arms race–but in fact have full access on my phone, iPad, computer and TV without ads. I’ve been in that arms race back when I had more time than money, and I don’t want to be in it again.
  - guerrilla 4y ago
    They don't need you, or anyone's help. You're just screwing yourself. I think it's irrational and immoral for YouTube not to be commons at this point. The rest of what you said doesn't exist as a problem, no end-user cares about any of that because it involves no actual work or activity of any kind.
    - SllX 4y ago
      Agree to disagree. I think you have a much more mercenary attitude than I do in just taking what you want and our POVs are not reconcilable.
      - guerrilla 4y ago
        That was a dismissive and disrespectful comment. I told you what my attitude is, so don't just ignore that and then proceed to tell me what my attitude is. No, using Wikipedia as we all do is not a "much more mercenary attitude", it's just commons, as all globally shared infrastructure should be. Your morality is just inconsistent.
        SllX 4y ago
        You don’t build a business with real infrastructure without money and a value proposition. YouTube isn’t a non-profit, and society isn’t entitled to take what they want from it without acknowledging and respecting the terms YouTube makes its infrastructure available. There are other outlets for more “commons”-like tube experiences, notably PeerTube. The value is in YouTube though, and I know that bothers some people, but it doesn’t bother me. I’m not screwing myself by paying them for a subscription: it’s called trade. They have stuff I want, I have stuff they want. If I value something, I pay for it or trade for it (e.g. Wikipedia, the Internet Archive, all private property by the way, somebody owns their servers too, they’re just a different type of corporation). I think it is fairly mercenary to take a moral stance against paying money for something that you like. I know that there are people I watch who make their livings through YouTube, some of whom are buying houses or getting married because they’re able to with this income; and for others, it’s just a side gig or a hobby. They’re not getting paid when you Adblock, but they are getting paid for the aggregate views that I and others give them. If you think our views aren’t un-reconcilable, don’t tell me that I’m being irrational or that I’m “screwing myself” by paying for something I want to see continue to exist simply because I’m not bothered by the idea of people taking profits. If you can’t do that, then take my offer to agree to disagree. I’m not bothered by your outlook, but I don’t share it in common with you.