4 ms·

i've stopped following this war/conflict because the amount of bs stemming from both sides is unparalleled from other stuff i've seen historically. i legitimate

by volkk 4y ago

i've stopped following this war/conflict because the amount of bs stemming from both sides is unparalleled from other stuff i've seen historically. i legitimately can't tell what is made up/staged/propaganda from actual facts, and i am guessing i will never know. some of it is very blatant. twitter is filled with bots, and deceit is everywhere. not surprised at all reading this fyi -- i was born in ukraine and i can say from experience that it is a massively corrupt country, and so is russia.

Xeoncross 4y ago
The other side is pure evil, not even human, they shouldn't be allowed anything, in fact, the world would be better without them! Business, politics, relationships gone south. Everyone seems to think this is an acceptable way to frame the other side. I know rage drives clicks, but man is it killing our future. The news really is destroying the world.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- viro 4y ago
  Umm, Putin literally gave a "blood & soil" speech before invading. Do you think the mass graves found are also fake?
  - thriftwy 4y ago
    These are genuine graves with genuine dead people inside and genuine crosses above them, often trying to describe the contents, such as "17 Ukrainian soldiers".
    - viro 4y ago
      BUCHA? do these look like soldiers to you? https://storage.googleapis.com/afs-prod/media/8b286707d5df49529273c4bde0632e08/2000.jpeg https://storage.googleapis.com/afs-prod/media/8b286707d5df49... edit: source = https://apnews.com/article/russia-ukraine-europe-2c77447fda4b362dfcd99e4331f9d6ae https://apnews.com/article/russia-ukraine-europe-2c77447fda4...
      - thriftwy 4y ago
        I don't think I'm qualified to comment about their actual contents, but it seems that these (soldiers and victims of the war) graveyards were described in Russian telegram war channels in spring already.
        pushkine 4y ago
        Yeah there's a months-old video from the Russian MoD showing the burying process at that exact site in Izyum, I don't think there's much to it Bucha though, I've seen drone footage of civilians getting executed by Russian BMPs. You could argue the systematicity of that process, but Russia's occupation west of Kyiv undeniably caused a large number of civilian casualties
  - Xeoncross 4y ago
    I was speaking in general. Of all the people I've been told to hate and despise over the last several years, Putin is an outlier. He actually is directly responsible for killing people.
- o_1 4y ago
  amen
mpclark 4y ago
If I was a propagandist, this is the second order effect I'd want to see. If people don't lap up my story, inducing apathy is the next best thing.
ausbah 4y ago
even if you don't follow the conflict it's pretty easy to say whose the good guys and whose the bad guys
hackerlight 4y ago
Your last sentence sort of sounds like the both sides fallacy. Like yeah, it's not factually incorrect that both countries have corruption, but what point are you making? Propaganda and information warfare being used by both sides as the weapon that it is, should in no way begin to imply moral equivalence between the victim (Ukraine) and fascist empire builder (Russia).
mint2 4y ago
No offense, but if this is the first time you’ve realized claims should always be validated I hate to say it’s not because that’s a new situation but rather this is the first time you’re aware of it. Second, that point is the most true about faceless comments on the internet, as your comment notes about Twitter, and according to your own comment the material on Russia/Ukraine bears particular scrutiny and yet in your comment on Russia/Ukraine there wasn’t any concrete evidence cited so at best you’re spreading unverifiable positions while also explicitly professing to not have any clue to what’s happening due to rampant misleading info. As it happens it seems I was also born in Ukraine grew up in Russia and moved the USA [for the purposes of this comment but not really] so my take gives me special credibility on this matter.
yread 4y ago
It's not that bad if you stick to sceptical people like Defmon3 or people who only comment on stuff they understand like H I Sutton. Ignore the cheerleaders and don't even scroll down to the comments
hnarn 4y ago
Just follow a reliable source and ignore the rest? They’re not that hard to find, the ISW is a good example, they rarely make rushed statements.
osynavets 4y ago
> i was born in ukraine and i can say from experience that it is a massively corrupt country I wouldn't say that's true Saying massively corrupt to me looks like either cheery-picking or exaggeration

by volkk 4y ago

Xeoncross 4y ago

The other side is pure evil, not even human, they shouldn't be allowed anything, in fact, the world would be better without them! Business, politics, relationships gone south. Everyone seems to think this is an acceptable way to frame the other side. I know rage drives clicks, but man is it killing our future. The news really is destroying the world.

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
viro 4y ago
Umm, Putin literally gave a "blood & soil" speech before invading. Do you think the mass graves found are also fake?
- thriftwy 4y ago
  These are genuine graves with genuine dead people inside and genuine crosses above them, often trying to describe the contents, such as "17 Ukrainian soldiers".
  - viro 4y ago
    BUCHA? do these look like soldiers to you? https://storage.googleapis.com/afs-prod/media/8b286707d5df49529273c4bde0632e08/2000.jpeg https://storage.googleapis.com/afs-prod/media/8b286707d5df49... edit: source = https://apnews.com/article/russia-ukraine-europe-2c77447fda4b362dfcd99e4331f9d6ae https://apnews.com/article/russia-ukraine-europe-2c77447fda4...
    - thriftwy 4y ago
      I don't think I'm qualified to comment about their actual contents, but it seems that these (soldiers and victims of the war) graveyards were described in Russian telegram war channels in spring already.
      - pushkine 4y ago
        Yeah there's a months-old video from the Russian MoD showing the burying process at that exact site in Izyum, I don't think there's much to it Bucha though, I've seen drone footage of civilians getting executed by Russian BMPs. You could argue the systematicity of that process, but Russia's occupation west of Kyiv undeniably caused a large number of civilian casualties
- Xeoncross 4y ago
  I was speaking in general. Of all the people I've been told to hate and despise over the last several years, Putin is an outlier. He actually is directly responsible for killing people.
o_1 4y ago
amen

mpclark 4y ago

If I was a propagandist, this is the second order effect I'd want to see. If people don't lap up my story, inducing apathy is the next best thing.

ausbah 4y ago

even if you don't follow the conflict it's pretty easy to say whose the good guys and whose the bad guys

hackerlight 4y ago

Your last sentence sort of sounds like the both sides fallacy. Like yeah, it's not factually incorrect that both countries have corruption, but what point are you making? Propaganda and information warfare being used by both sides as the weapon that it is, should in no way begin to imply moral equivalence between the victim (Ukraine) and fascist empire builder (Russia).

mint2 4y ago

No offense, but if this is the first time you’ve realized claims should always be validated I hate to say it’s not because that’s a new situation but rather this is the first time you’re aware of it. Second, that point is the most true about faceless comments on the internet, as your comment notes about Twitter, and according to your own comment the material on Russia/Ukraine bears particular scrutiny and yet in your comment on Russia/Ukraine there wasn’t any concrete evidence cited so at best you’re spreading unverifiable positions while also explicitly professing to not have any clue to what’s happening due to rampant misleading info. As it happens it seems I was also born in Ukraine grew up in Russia and moved the USA [for the purposes of this comment but not really] so my take gives me special credibility on this matter.

yread 4y ago

It's not that bad if you stick to sceptical people like Defmon3 or people who only comment on stuff they understand like H I Sutton. Ignore the cheerleaders and don't even scroll down to the comments

hnarn 4y ago

Just follow a reliable source and ignore the rest? They’re not that hard to find, the ISW is a good example, they rarely make rushed statements.

osynavets 4y ago

> i was born in ukraine and i can say from experience that it is a massively corrupt country I wouldn't say that's true Saying massively corrupt to me looks like either cheery-picking or exaggeration