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Almost everything in this comment is wrong. It reads like a political speech - an effort to convince using rhetoric rather than a serious entry in a technical d
by dTal 4y ago
Almost everything in this comment is wrong. It reads like a political speech - an effort to convince using rhetoric rather than a serious entry in a technical discussion. It's so awful that I'm unhappy with just downvoting it and moving on, lest someone else be swayed by its words. So here's my attempt to refute the Gish gallop, sentence by sentence:
> The energy source that was supposed to be "too cheap to meter" turns out to have a net negative energy value
This is obviously nonsense. Nuclear plants produce far more energy than it takes to construct and manage them, for decades at a time. Nearly all of France's energy comes from nuclear; if this were true they would need to import vast amounts of fossil-derived energy just to cover the costs of building the plants. Completely inane. Obviously nuclear power makes power.
> When you add together the true costs of building, running, and decommissioning a nuclear plant it comes to more than you can sell the electricity for.
I'm highly skeptical of this claim - like the above, it doesn't pass the order-of-magnitude sniff test. But even if it were true, it wouldn't necessarily tell us much in the current world where the energy market is distorted by cheap fossil fuel power, which is both a) subsidized and b) under no requirement to pay for its own cleanup, the expense of which would be prodigious.
>All nuclear plants rely on government subsidy and externalization of decommissioning costs.
That's not true, many pay into their own decommissioning fund.
> In other words -- they're not on the balance sheets.
If anything, the externalities of nuclear are the most meticulously accounted of all the power sources.
> What legit business gets away with that?
All fossil fuel businesses, who spew their waste into the atmosphere and pay nothing for it.
>The reality is that nuclear power is a 1950's technology -- one from the past, not the future.
If we could use technology from the future, that would certainly solve a lot of problems. But if we're ranking energy technology by age, then the ordering goes: fossil fuels -> solar panels -> windmill generators -> fission.
> We never fully understood the implications of running or taking apart a nuclear plant at commercial scale and instead of addressing the real problems, we just pretend they don't exist.
...We didn't? Again, France seems to manage okay. I'm not even sure what you're trying to say here.
> It's time to put the effort and expense once reserved for nuclear into something that doesn't create waste that lasts for 240,000 years (plutonium) or require supervised swimming pools to store (used fuel rods).
What's your suggestion? What should we build right now? We can't just not build power plants because someone might invent a better technology in the future.
> We need power plants that can be turned on and off quickly -- at small scale -- not ones that require 20 years to build and 50 to tear down.
Not only is this is a weird false dichotomy - switching time is orthogonal to construction time - but it's also wrong on both sides of the dichotomy: nuclear power plants can be switched very quickly (just raise and lower the control rods), and also don't take 20 years to build. Gravelines Nuclear Power Station (not cherry picked, just the one I happen to have the Wikipedia page open for) is the largest nuclear power station in France, and took... 8 years to build.
> The time for nuclear is over... and it has been for a while! We've just been in denial.
What denial? People have been irrationally fighting nuclear power since the early days of the Cold War, largely due to its association with nuclear weapons.
- Schroedingersat 4y ago> What's your suggestion? What should we build right now? We can't just not build power plants because someone might invent a better technology in the future. Wind and solar (then when variability limits from existing hydro and nuclear are reached, add H2, ammonia, and battery storage). It comes online in years instead of decades and doesn't wind up with 20% offline due to unexpected downtime when it's needed most like france. It is already possible to build a mix with at least x watts 24/7/365 for lower price than nuclear (which has 60-90% availabity) and price goes down as you build more instead of up. The R&D required to reach these efficiencies has been possible for decades, but we chose to spend those billions elsewhere.