4 ms·

Probably because the alternative is to not have power during the (increasingly common) blackouts. I'm assuming that is the alternative due to there not being a

Probably because the alternative is to not have power during the (increasingly common) blackouts. I'm assuming that is the alternative due to there not being a proper way to accomplish this goal that does not cost thousands of dollars.

sokoloff 4y ago
There are reasonably priced (under $100, though not under $3 like a common receptacle) male power inlets. https://www.homedepot.com/p/Reliance-Controls-30-Amp-Power-Inlet-Box-PB30/202213702 https://www.homedepot.com/p/Reliance-Controls-30-Amp-Power-I... is the first one I found on Google (4-wire for 240V center-tapped), but there are many, including a 120V version: https://www.amazon.com/Leviton-5278-CWP-Straight-Flanged-Receptacle/dp/B003ATXIBG/ref=sr_1_8 https://www.amazon.com/Leviton-5278-CWP-Straight-Flanged-Rec... Even these, if hardwired to the building's service, represent some risk, but the risk is to the people poking fingers into the box, which could reasonably have a locking cover on it. If that male inlet is powered only via a transfer switch or a back-fed breaker that's normally off, the risk is much, much lower than a double-male cord.
- hedora 4y ago
  Unless it is installed properly, that is just as dangerous as the cord in the article, as long as you remember the "plug generator in last" rule. In particular, both can kill hapless power company employees by unexpectedly backfeeding into downed parts of the grid, and they have similar carbon monoxide/fire hazard issues. (Not that there is anything wrong with the product; I wish they were mandatory, so they'd reliably be inspected after installation!)
  - sokoloff 4y ago
    I don't know what percentage of electrical work is inspected, but I would certainly not characterize it as "reliably". There are aisles full of electrical equipment sold at Home Depot and Lowes. The (vast?) majority of that is getting installed with no inspections.
    - hedora 4y ago
      Inspections are hard to avoid when you build a new house, or perform major renovations. If the outlet were required at that point in time, there wouldn't be a temptation to improperly retrofit the outlet in later.
      - sokoloff 4y ago
        Most building codes (as adopted by the AHJs) do not require systems not part of the job to be brought up to current code if they met code at the time of install, are in good repair, and are not being significantly worked on. You can add an addition without converting all the old bedroom breakers to AFCI. (That represents a much higher safety risk than any generator inlet could possibly be.)
        hedora 4y ago
        Well yeah, but if the addition (or your new EV, which might actually support working as a home backup battery) requires a new panel, then the port would be required. On the other hand, generators are rapidly becoming obsolete, so this might be akin to requiring installation of upgraded coal shoots.
    - bluGill 4y ago
      My local code allows me to replace outlets without any permit/inspection. With toddlers around I've replaced a lot of outlets with modern safety outlets (have a shutter so you can't stick something in the hot slot). I've done other electric work that has passed inspection.
  - birdman3131 4y ago
    The actual chance of your generator backfeeding the grid is nigh nill. The issue is that all your neighbors are still connected. The moment your generator touches the grid it acts as pretty much a dead short. Not saying it can't happen. The main one where it could is if the break is between your house and everybody else. But in the vast majority of situations you will instantly pop the dinky 15a breaker
- amluto 4y ago
  The correct low-budget way to connect one of these is using an interlock kit: https://www.se.com/us/en/product/HOMCGK2C/load-center-accessory-homeline-interlock-kit-generator-circuit-breaker-high-amp-indoor-clam-packaging/ https://www.se.com/us/en/product/HOMCGK2C/load-center-access... You need the inlet, the kit, and a correctly sized breaker that is suitable for backfeeding.
  - rsync 4y ago
    Yes! Not only is a mechanical interlock a code-compliant method to properly protect downstream line workers but it is also a simple and comprehensible component that costs very little and never breaks. We have a whole-house generator connected to our main panel and I made a very deliberate decision not to add the complexity and fragility of an automatic transfer switch. The little metal tab will always work and nobody will ever be confused.
jaywalk 4y ago
I highly doubt that having an electrician come out to install an outdoor inlet would cost thousands of dollars.
- hedora 4y ago
  It definitely would be thousands to get one of these installed in California. The electricians cost way over $100 per hour. Also, a backflow cutoff is required by law, as are permits, inspections, etc. San Jose has setback requirements, requires a concrete pad (for hardwired installations), and charges various fees: https://www.sanjoseca.gov/home/showpublisheddocument?id=44996 https://www.sanjoseca.gov/home/showpublisheddocument?id=4499... It wouldn't surprise me if you could get a deal on "new generator; free installation" though.
- dave78 4y ago
  The parts alone to do it properly are several hundred dollars - the inlet box is around $60, 25 feet of 10/3 cable is $100 (obviously more for longer - wiring has gotten really expensive the past few years), circuit breaker $20, interlock kit is $150 (https://interlockkit.com/product/square-d-kit-k-5010-125-200-amp-main/ https://interlockkit.com/product/square-d-kit-k-5010-125-200...). Plus permit and inspection ($150 is the cheapest permit in my town). That's already $480 and you haven't even talked to the electrician yet. If you get lucky and find an inexpensive electrician AND the inlet you want to install is located very close to the panel (minimal drilling, short wire, etc.), you can probably get it done for less than $1000, but probably not a whole lot less.
- Dalewyn 4y ago
  Installing an outlet yourself? Buy one for $10 or something, more if it's some special outlet, maybe spend an hour or two at most with the actual install. Hire an electrician to install it for you? Between markups and labor, easily several hundred bucks at the very least. A thousand is entirely plausible. Ignorance is expensive, knowing how things like electricity and plumbing work will save you money and help make life more fulfilling.
- kube-system 4y ago
  My city charges $300 just to pull a permit, and an electrician charges $100 just to show up. Then at minimum you'll need a new branch circuit, breaker, conduit, fittings, outdoor box, wire, interlock kit, and the outlet. And you better hope your breaker box has availability for a new branch and that it's recent enough for an interlock kit. If not, you'll need to replace the entire panel and all circuit breakers. And in my jurisdiction, grounding requirements had recently changed, and my local inspector required that I bring the grounding up to code in order to have any work approved.

sokoloff 4y ago

There are reasonably priced (under $100, though not under $3 like a common receptacle) male power inlets. https://www.homedepot.com/p/Reliance-Controls-30-Amp-Power-Inlet-Box-PB30/202213702 https://www.homedepot.com/p/Reliance-Controls-30-Amp-Power-I... is the first one I found on Google (4-wire for 240V center-tapped), but there are many, including a 120V version: https://www.amazon.com/Leviton-5278-CWP-Straight-Flanged-Receptacle/dp/B003ATXIBG/ref=sr_1_8 https://www.amazon.com/Leviton-5278-CWP-Straight-Flanged-Rec... Even these, if hardwired to the building's service, represent some risk, but the risk is to the people poking fingers into the box, which could reasonably have a locking cover on it. If that male inlet is powered only via a transfer switch or a back-fed breaker that's normally off, the risk is much, much lower than a double-male cord.

hedora 4y ago
Unless it is installed properly, that is just as dangerous as the cord in the article, as long as you remember the "plug generator in last" rule. In particular, both can kill hapless power company employees by unexpectedly backfeeding into downed parts of the grid, and they have similar carbon monoxide/fire hazard issues. (Not that there is anything wrong with the product; I wish they were mandatory, so they'd reliably be inspected after installation!)
- sokoloff 4y ago
  I don't know what percentage of electrical work is inspected, but I would certainly not characterize it as "reliably". There are aisles full of electrical equipment sold at Home Depot and Lowes. The (vast?) majority of that is getting installed with no inspections.
  - hedora 4y ago
    Inspections are hard to avoid when you build a new house, or perform major renovations. If the outlet were required at that point in time, there wouldn't be a temptation to improperly retrofit the outlet in later.
    - sokoloff 4y ago
      Most building codes (as adopted by the AHJs) do not require systems not part of the job to be brought up to current code if they met code at the time of install, are in good repair, and are not being significantly worked on. You can add an addition without converting all the old bedroom breakers to AFCI. (That represents a much higher safety risk than any generator inlet could possibly be.)
      - hedora 4y ago
        Well yeah, but if the addition (or your new EV, which might actually support working as a home backup battery) requires a new panel, then the port would be required. On the other hand, generators are rapidly becoming obsolete, so this might be akin to requiring installation of upgraded coal shoots.
  - bluGill 4y ago
    My local code allows me to replace outlets without any permit/inspection. With toddlers around I've replaced a lot of outlets with modern safety outlets (have a shutter so you can't stick something in the hot slot). I've done other electric work that has passed inspection.
- birdman3131 4y ago
  The actual chance of your generator backfeeding the grid is nigh nill. The issue is that all your neighbors are still connected. The moment your generator touches the grid it acts as pretty much a dead short. Not saying it can't happen. The main one where it could is if the break is between your house and everybody else. But in the vast majority of situations you will instantly pop the dinky 15a breaker
amluto 4y ago
The correct low-budget way to connect one of these is using an interlock kit: https://www.se.com/us/en/product/HOMCGK2C/load-center-accessory-homeline-interlock-kit-generator-circuit-breaker-high-amp-indoor-clam-packaging/ https://www.se.com/us/en/product/HOMCGK2C/load-center-access... You need the inlet, the kit, and a correctly sized breaker that is suitable for backfeeding.
- rsync 4y ago
  Yes! Not only is a mechanical interlock a code-compliant method to properly protect downstream line workers but it is also a simple and comprehensible component that costs very little and never breaks. We have a whole-house generator connected to our main panel and I made a very deliberate decision not to add the complexity and fragility of an automatic transfer switch. The little metal tab will always work and nobody will ever be confused.

jaywalk 4y ago

I highly doubt that having an electrician come out to install an outdoor inlet would cost thousands of dollars.

hedora 4y ago
It definitely would be thousands to get one of these installed in California. The electricians cost way over $100 per hour. Also, a backflow cutoff is required by law, as are permits, inspections, etc. San Jose has setback requirements, requires a concrete pad (for hardwired installations), and charges various fees: https://www.sanjoseca.gov/home/showpublisheddocument?id=44996 https://www.sanjoseca.gov/home/showpublisheddocument?id=4499... It wouldn't surprise me if you could get a deal on "new generator; free installation" though.
dave78 4y ago
The parts alone to do it properly are several hundred dollars - the inlet box is around $60, 25 feet of 10/3 cable is $100 (obviously more for longer - wiring has gotten really expensive the past few years), circuit breaker $20, interlock kit is $150 (https://interlockkit.com/product/square-d-kit-k-5010-125-200-amp-main/ https://interlockkit.com/product/square-d-kit-k-5010-125-200...). Plus permit and inspection ($150 is the cheapest permit in my town). That's already $480 and you haven't even talked to the electrician yet. If you get lucky and find an inexpensive electrician AND the inlet you want to install is located very close to the panel (minimal drilling, short wire, etc.), you can probably get it done for less than $1000, but probably not a whole lot less.
Dalewyn 4y ago
Installing an outlet yourself? Buy one for $10 or something, more if it's some special outlet, maybe spend an hour or two at most with the actual install. Hire an electrician to install it for you? Between markups and labor, easily several hundred bucks at the very least. A thousand is entirely plausible. Ignorance is expensive, knowing how things like electricity and plumbing work will save you money and help make life more fulfilling.
kube-system 4y ago
My city charges $300 just to pull a permit, and an electrician charges $100 just to show up. Then at minimum you'll need a new branch circuit, breaker, conduit, fittings, outdoor box, wire, interlock kit, and the outlet. And you better hope your breaker box has availability for a new branch and that it's recent enough for an interlock kit. If not, you'll need to replace the entire panel and all circuit breakers. And in my jurisdiction, grounding requirements had recently changed, and my local inspector required that I bring the grounding up to code in order to have any work approved.