5 ms·

I kind of hate that the notice points to a safety code (NFPA 70 in this case) but in order to see it, you have create an account in order to read it. If you wan

I kind of hate that the notice points to a safety code (NFPA 70 in this case) but in order to see it, you have create an account in order to read it. If you want a copy of the code, you have to pay.

tyingq 4y ago
Not sure how it works, but there is a "Free Access" button here...leads to a registration form. https://www.nfpa.org/codes-and-standards/all-codes-and-standards/list-of-codes-and-standards/detail?code=70 https://www.nfpa.org/codes-and-standards/all-codes-and-stand...
sokoloff 4y ago
There is free-to-read-online access to the code. You need to pay to download or get a printed copy, but the code is free (as in beer) to read.
notRobot 4y ago
Google brings up a few PDFs, dunno if they're the correct ones: https://www.google.com/search?q=NFPA%2070%20filetype%3Apdf https://www.google.com/search?q=NFPA%2070%20filetype%3Apdf
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
Old_Thrashbarg 4y ago
UpCodes cofounder here, couldn't agree more. We're fighting the Law Publishers for free, ungated access to the law. They think they own the laws, it's insane. Previous Hacker News thread: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19617073 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19617073 We host a lot of laws based on the NFPA 70 BTW (see https://up.codes/codes/general https://up.codes/codes/general). We take a ton of heat for hosting the law, it's messed up.
- massysett 4y ago
  I think your beef here is with legislatures, not publishers like NFPA. It takes a lot of work to write and maintain these codes. NFPA, a private organization, gets money to do this by charging for the code. Maybe legislatures should be paying NFPA to develop these things, rather than paying nothing for them and leaving NFPA to figure out a way to fund them. Then legislatures could buy a license for them, or demand that they be put into the public domain. But it's not fair to blame NFPA for charging for these things after they fronted the significant effort to develop them.
  - Old_Thrashbarg 4y ago
    A significant misconception is about who writes the codes. I haven't looked closely at NFPA's model, but many of the Law Publishers actually have outside volunteers write the codes - government officials, industry professionals and interested third parties. Another misconception is around where their revenue comes from. ICC for example (who we know the best given their 2 lawsuits against us), makes 80.0% of their revenue from program services, including consulting, certification, and training, which do not rely on profiting by limiting access to the law (see their last 990). These non-profit organizations are extremely lucrative and pay their executives many times the median non-profit executive salaries. We've had various laws based on ICC codes on our site since 2016, and they're making more money than they've ever made (https://projects.propublica.org/nonprofits/organizations/363999004 https://projects.propublica.org/nonprofits/organizations/363...).
riffic 4y ago
par for the course with these types of codes though.
guerby 4y ago
In France if the law references a norm and makes it mandatory then the norm must be publically accessible for free. Here is the list of all the norms that must be available for free to the public in France: https://www.legifrance.gouv.fr/contenu/menu/autour-de-la-loi/entreprises/normes-afnor-d-application-obligatoire https://www.legifrance.gouv.fr/contenu/menu/autour-de-la-loi... Electrical code for residential building is called "NFC 15-100" in France. Vendors will usually publish short and well made documents referencing the essential stuff from NFC 15-100 when installing electrical hardware. Example of Schneider: https://www.se.com/fr/fr/work/support/local/reglementation/norme-nfc15-100/ https://www.se.com/fr/fr/work/support/local/reglementation/n...

I kind of hate that the notice points to a safety code (NFPA 70 in this case) but in order to see it, you have create an account in order to read it. If you want a copy of the code, you have to pay.

tyingq 4y ago

Not sure how it works, but there is a "Free Access" button here...leads to a registration form. https://www.nfpa.org/codes-and-standards/all-codes-and-standards/list-of-codes-and-standards/detail?code=70 https://www.nfpa.org/codes-and-standards/all-codes-and-stand...

sokoloff 4y ago

There is free-to-read-online access to the code. You need to pay to download or get a printed copy, but the code is free (as in beer) to read.

notRobot 4y ago

Google brings up a few PDFs, dunno if they're the correct ones: https://www.google.com/search?q=NFPA%2070%20filetype%3Apdf https://www.google.com/search?q=NFPA%2070%20filetype%3Apdf

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

Old_Thrashbarg 4y ago

UpCodes cofounder here, couldn't agree more. We're fighting the Law Publishers for free, ungated access to the law. They think they own the laws, it's insane. Previous Hacker News thread: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19617073 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19617073 We host a lot of laws based on the NFPA 70 BTW (see https://up.codes/codes/general https://up.codes/codes/general). We take a ton of heat for hosting the law, it's messed up.

massysett 4y ago
I think your beef here is with legislatures, not publishers like NFPA. It takes a lot of work to write and maintain these codes. NFPA, a private organization, gets money to do this by charging for the code. Maybe legislatures should be paying NFPA to develop these things, rather than paying nothing for them and leaving NFPA to figure out a way to fund them. Then legislatures could buy a license for them, or demand that they be put into the public domain. But it's not fair to blame NFPA for charging for these things after they fronted the significant effort to develop them.
- Old_Thrashbarg 4y ago
  A significant misconception is about who writes the codes. I haven't looked closely at NFPA's model, but many of the Law Publishers actually have outside volunteers write the codes - government officials, industry professionals and interested third parties. Another misconception is around where their revenue comes from. ICC for example (who we know the best given their 2 lawsuits against us), makes 80.0% of their revenue from program services, including consulting, certification, and training, which do not rely on profiting by limiting access to the law (see their last 990). These non-profit organizations are extremely lucrative and pay their executives many times the median non-profit executive salaries. We've had various laws based on ICC codes on our site since 2016, and they're making more money than they've ever made (https://projects.propublica.org/nonprofits/organizations/363999004 https://projects.propublica.org/nonprofits/organizations/363...).

riffic 4y ago

par for the course with these types of codes though.

guerby 4y ago

In France if the law references a norm and makes it mandatory then the norm must be publically accessible for free. Here is the list of all the norms that must be available for free to the public in France: https://www.legifrance.gouv.fr/contenu/menu/autour-de-la-loi/entreprises/normes-afnor-d-application-obligatoire https://www.legifrance.gouv.fr/contenu/menu/autour-de-la-loi... Electrical code for residential building is called "NFC 15-100" in France. Vendors will usually publish short and well made documents referencing the essential stuff from NFC 15-100 when installing electrical hardware. Example of Schneider: https://www.se.com/fr/fr/work/support/local/reglementation/norme-nfc15-100/ https://www.se.com/fr/fr/work/support/local/reglementation/n...