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No because if it's standard, they will ask you to disable travel mode and download all the data. You can say no, but you can't refuse and cross the border. It'

No because if it's standard, they will ask you to disable travel mode and download all the data. You can say no, but you can't refuse and cross the border. It's not a technical problem.

gambiting 4y ago
>>. You can say no, but you can't refuse and cross the border. It is my understanding that if you are American and are trying to enter, they can't stop you from coming in indefinitely, is that not true?
O__________O 4y ago
It for sure is a technical issue and by “travel mode” I mean you: 1. end-to-end encrypt a cloud backup 2. Securely wipe the phone. 3. Install OS in travel mode, which means no local data is forced and at best kept until restarting phone. Hardware enforcement of ban of updates including firmware and OS, unless system wiped. With a visual unique easily recognizable “code” to tell if the current “travel mode” was over rewritten; for example, unique consistent computer generated recognizable human face is shown on reboot until being reformatted and is different every time phone is reformatted. 4. On reaching known safe point, phone wiped, OS installed in non-travel mode, backup installed. If there’s no data or way to root the phone, it’s meaningless effort and would no longer even be done at the border; they might find another route to get data, but current issue would no longer be a viable route. — to be fair, I did mention multiple-logins, but to me that was intended to mean additional features/options, not a replacement for the core issue of forced access to devices/data at predictable chock points like border crossings.
- BiteCode_dev 4y ago
  Nope, if an abusive administration is committed enough, it will mark as suspicious any cleaned phone, especially if they can access freely metadata about your life without a judge. No need for the content, they just need to make sure the activity score is higher than the one on your phone. It's not illegal not to have you real phone, but why haven't you? Do you have anything to hide? And they will make you life annoying enough, making you miss flights, waste your time, cost you money and opportunities, until most of the population comply. It's a cat and mouse game, where you are trying to oppose technical solutions to people being simply abusive, which doesn't work on the long run, because the problem is that you are being ruled by the mob. It's funny, because if were it be happening in China or in Russia, everybody would be loosing their mind, saying how those dictatorships are abusive. Then they would note how the Russian and Chinese don't seem to notice they are being abused and defend their country.
mlindner 4y ago
> You can say no, but you can't refuse and cross the border. They can't prevent Americans from entering the country.
- BiteCode_dev 4y ago
  Right, I forgot that it was about americans. But they can, and will if the trend of abuses continue, make you loose your flight, make you waste time, opportunity, and money. And put you in a list so that they do that every time your travel.
- hnbad 4y ago
  Article says they can hold onto your electronic devices tho. They can also probably arrest you for the legal maximum (which unlike proper jail probably won't result in you losing your living but could result in you losing money in addition to time). They don't have to literally prevent you from entering your own country in order to make refusal to cooperate extremely unpleasant for you. Not to mention they can do this every time going forward and they can do this to other people in your group as well. Good luck proving this is harassment and not due dilligence.
olalonde 4y ago
Border forces are not allowed to intentionally access remote data[0]. [0] https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/border-patrol-says-it-s-barred-searching-cloud-data-phones-n782416 https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/border-patrol-says-it-s...
- BiteCode_dev 4y ago
  They don't have to, they can just say the phone synchronized on its own when set back out of travel mode. They will lie, of pressure you to download the data prior their search. Again, it's not a technical problem. Abusive people are abusive. Law enforcers are not good people because of their title, society shape them in who their are and how they behave. Currently, in the US, they are not shaped to be helping citizen.

No because if it's standard, they will ask you to disable travel mode and download all the data. You can say no, but you can't refuse and cross the border. It's not a technical problem.

gambiting 4y ago

>>. You can say no, but you can't refuse and cross the border. It is my understanding that if you are American and are trying to enter, they can't stop you from coming in indefinitely, is that not true?

O__________O 4y ago

It for sure is a technical issue and by “travel mode” I mean you: 1. end-to-end encrypt a cloud backup 2. Securely wipe the phone. 3. Install OS in travel mode, which means no local data is forced and at best kept until restarting phone. Hardware enforcement of ban of updates including firmware and OS, unless system wiped. With a visual unique easily recognizable “code” to tell if the current “travel mode” was over rewritten; for example, unique consistent computer generated recognizable human face is shown on reboot until being reformatted and is different every time phone is reformatted. 4. On reaching known safe point, phone wiped, OS installed in non-travel mode, backup installed. If there’s no data or way to root the phone, it’s meaningless effort and would no longer even be done at the border; they might find another route to get data, but current issue would no longer be a viable route. — to be fair, I did mention multiple-logins, but to me that was intended to mean additional features/options, not a replacement for the core issue of forced access to devices/data at predictable chock points like border crossings.

BiteCode_dev 4y ago
Nope, if an abusive administration is committed enough, it will mark as suspicious any cleaned phone, especially if they can access freely metadata about your life without a judge. No need for the content, they just need to make sure the activity score is higher than the one on your phone. It's not illegal not to have you real phone, but why haven't you? Do you have anything to hide? And they will make you life annoying enough, making you miss flights, waste your time, cost you money and opportunities, until most of the population comply. It's a cat and mouse game, where you are trying to oppose technical solutions to people being simply abusive, which doesn't work on the long run, because the problem is that you are being ruled by the mob. It's funny, because if were it be happening in China or in Russia, everybody would be loosing their mind, saying how those dictatorships are abusive. Then they would note how the Russian and Chinese don't seem to notice they are being abused and defend their country.

mlindner 4y ago

> You can say no, but you can't refuse and cross the border. They can't prevent Americans from entering the country.

BiteCode_dev 4y ago
Right, I forgot that it was about americans. But they can, and will if the trend of abuses continue, make you loose your flight, make you waste time, opportunity, and money. And put you in a list so that they do that every time your travel.
hnbad 4y ago
Article says they can hold onto your electronic devices tho. They can also probably arrest you for the legal maximum (which unlike proper jail probably won't result in you losing your living but could result in you losing money in addition to time). They don't have to literally prevent you from entering your own country in order to make refusal to cooperate extremely unpleasant for you. Not to mention they can do this every time going forward and they can do this to other people in your group as well. Good luck proving this is harassment and not due dilligence.

olalonde 4y ago

Border forces are not allowed to intentionally access remote data[0]. [0] https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/border-patrol-says-it-s-barred-searching-cloud-data-phones-n782416 https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/border-patrol-says-it-s...

BiteCode_dev 4y ago
They don't have to, they can just say the phone synchronized on its own when set back out of travel mode. They will lie, of pressure you to download the data prior their search. Again, it's not a technical problem. Abusive people are abusive. Law enforcers are not good people because of their title, society shape them in who their are and how they behave. Currently, in the US, they are not shaped to be helping citizen.