4 ms·

That's not an acceptable answer in a number of countries.

by Bakary 4y ago

dylan604 4y ago
It's not like you have another phone you're trying to hide and pass this one off, right? So at that point, it is the only answer. They can not like it all they want, and they can spend as much time trying to find how you're gaming them, but if you're not actually gaming them, then that's their problem.
- gambiting 4y ago
  >>but if you're not actually gaming them, then that's their problem. Is it? They have almost infinite time and money, they can follow false leads and accusations almost indefinitely, and whoever makes that decision will never be met with any kind of consequence for making the wrong call. However sitting in a cell somewhere while they wait for you to give them information that doesn't exist definitely sounds like your problem not theirs.
unethical_ban 4y ago
What the fuck? Are you saying I would get denied entry to a country if I brought no phone or a new phone?
- Bakary 4y ago
  In some countries and contexts this is a possibility. It's not uncommon for countries to have a system where you essentially have to convince a human border guard that you are no threat with no clear guidelines. Having no phone or a phone with not enough data can be a problem in such a context. The vast majority of border crossings across the world don't involve any questions about phones anyway, but if you are at the stage where they do the characteristics of your phone or lack thereof can piss off the person who determines whether you are allowed to enter. And if you are at that stage entry denial will probably not be solely based on your phone or lack thereof because there was probably a reason they starting asking about it in the first place. These aren't purely hypothetical scenarios but real life examples of things that happened to people I know.
  - MockObject 4y ago
    It seems unrealistic to imagine being turned away from entry for having brought a travel phone. I'd need to see some citations to believe it.
    - Bakary 4y ago
      I am under the impression you did not read the comment. I am not making the claim that the travel phone equals entry denial, just that it's a factor among several. In the vast majority of cases, it will not be a factor, nor will anything else because you'll just go through the border without arousing suspicion or any searches.
  - MichaelCollins 4y ago
    > It's not uncommon for countries to have a system where you essentially have to convince a human border guard that you are no threat with no clear guidelines. Canada is like this. I traveled to Canada with my father a few years ago. When we crossed the border I was driving; they asked both of us if we had any guns in the car. The answer was no and they were obviously free to search the car if they doubted that. But then they started grilling my dad about which guns he had at home, 500 miles away. How many shotguns do you own? What models? How many rifles do you own? Which models? How long have you owned these guns? What do you use them for? They didn't ask me any of that though. I was 35, I could have owned as many guns as he did, but I didn't and they seemed to know that already. I assume their system had access to some sort of database that flagged my father as a probable gun owner but not me. And the young border guard seemed intent to ask him invasive and utterly irrelevant questions to 'punish' him for this. I think the border guard was acting on individual initiative, because a few weeks later we entered Canada a second time and the border guards didn't even ask if we had guns in the car.
    - dylan604 4y ago
      If the database shows that your dad is a gun owner but then your dad denies owning guns or soft sells the guns so it is a different list than what the border agent already knows, then they have your dad on being evasive and potentially a subversive. Now they get to do something for the day rather than whatever they normally do.
ryukafalz 4y ago
Then what is an acceptable answer if you really have not brought your main phone?
- Bakary 4y ago
  The vast majority of flights won't include device searches or these awkward questions. But if you are in a situation where they do want to search your phone, the fact that it's a travel phone is not going to be received well. This will of course depend on the border guard in question. Unless you are a citizen of the country your capacity to enter it is now compromised because the will of the border guard is in practice nearly absolute and without recourse.
r00fus 4y ago
So let me get this straight - if I broke/lost a phone before a flight (and replaced with spare) - I can expect to be declined entry?
- Bakary 4y ago
  Not on its own. It's just that if crossing the border relies on the discretionary power of the local agents, and they find you suspicious enough to search you, and you then have additional aspects that might annoy them further such as being evasive about your electronics, then it could be a big problem for you. Statistically you don't have to worry about this at all.
  - dylan604 4y ago
    It's not being evasive about your electronics if you truly only have a travel phone while explaining it as a travel phone. That's telling it how it is. If you have a phone and refuse to grant access, that's being evasive. If you have 2 phones and try to play it like you have 1 phone, that's being evasive. If you have a secret under-duress boot partition for your laptop, that's being evasive. Having a set of travel electronics is not evasive. That's just how it is in today's big brother world.

That's not an acceptable answer in a number of countries.

by Bakary 4y ago

That's not an acceptable answer in a number of countries.

It's not like you have another phone you're trying to hide and pass this one off, right? So at that point, it is the only answer. They can not like it all they want, and they can spend as much time trying to find how you're gaming them, but if you're not actually gaming them, then that's their problem.

gambiting 4y ago
>>but if you're not actually gaming them, then that's their problem. Is it? They have almost infinite time and money, they can follow false leads and accusations almost indefinitely, and whoever makes that decision will never be met with any kind of consequence for making the wrong call. However sitting in a cell somewhere while they wait for you to give them information that doesn't exist definitely sounds like your problem not theirs.

unethical_ban 4y ago

What the fuck? Are you saying I would get denied entry to a country if I brought no phone or a new phone?

Bakary 4y ago
In some countries and contexts this is a possibility. It's not uncommon for countries to have a system where you essentially have to convince a human border guard that you are no threat with no clear guidelines. Having no phone or a phone with not enough data can be a problem in such a context. The vast majority of border crossings across the world don't involve any questions about phones anyway, but if you are at the stage where they do the characteristics of your phone or lack thereof can piss off the person who determines whether you are allowed to enter. And if you are at that stage entry denial will probably not be solely based on your phone or lack thereof because there was probably a reason they starting asking about it in the first place. These aren't purely hypothetical scenarios but real life examples of things that happened to people I know.
- MockObject 4y ago
  It seems unrealistic to imagine being turned away from entry for having brought a travel phone. I'd need to see some citations to believe it.
  - Bakary 4y ago
    I am under the impression you did not read the comment. I am not making the claim that the travel phone equals entry denial, just that it's a factor among several. In the vast majority of cases, it will not be a factor, nor will anything else because you'll just go through the border without arousing suspicion or any searches.
- MichaelCollins 4y ago
  > It's not uncommon for countries to have a system where you essentially have to convince a human border guard that you are no threat with no clear guidelines. Canada is like this. I traveled to Canada with my father a few years ago. When we crossed the border I was driving; they asked both of us if we had any guns in the car. The answer was no and they were obviously free to search the car if they doubted that. But then they started grilling my dad about which guns he had at home, 500 miles away. How many shotguns do you own? What models? How many rifles do you own? Which models? How long have you owned these guns? What do you use them for? They didn't ask me any of that though. I was 35, I could have owned as many guns as he did, but I didn't and they seemed to know that already. I assume their system had access to some sort of database that flagged my father as a probable gun owner but not me. And the young border guard seemed intent to ask him invasive and utterly irrelevant questions to 'punish' him for this. I think the border guard was acting on individual initiative, because a few weeks later we entered Canada a second time and the border guards didn't even ask if we had guns in the car.
  - dylan604 4y ago
    If the database shows that your dad is a gun owner but then your dad denies owning guns or soft sells the guns so it is a different list than what the border agent already knows, then they have your dad on being evasive and potentially a subversive. Now they get to do something for the day rather than whatever they normally do.

ryukafalz 4y ago

Then what is an acceptable answer if you really have not brought your main phone?

Bakary 4y ago
The vast majority of flights won't include device searches or these awkward questions. But if you are in a situation where they do want to search your phone, the fact that it's a travel phone is not going to be received well. This will of course depend on the border guard in question. Unless you are a citizen of the country your capacity to enter it is now compromised because the will of the border guard is in practice nearly absolute and without recourse.

r00fus 4y ago

So let me get this straight - if I broke/lost a phone before a flight (and replaced with spare) - I can expect to be declined entry?

Bakary 4y ago
Not on its own. It's just that if crossing the border relies on the discretionary power of the local agents, and they find you suspicious enough to search you, and you then have additional aspects that might annoy them further such as being evasive about your electronics, then it could be a big problem for you. Statistically you don't have to worry about this at all.
- dylan604 4y ago
  It's not being evasive about your electronics if you truly only have a travel phone while explaining it as a travel phone. That's telling it how it is. If you have a phone and refuse to grant access, that's being evasive. If you have 2 phones and try to play it like you have 1 phone, that's being evasive. If you have a secret under-duress boot partition for your laptop, that's being evasive. Having a set of travel electronics is not evasive. That's just how it is in today's big brother world.