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This is insane in my opinion. People are acting like Figma is now "unclean" for being associated with Adobe.

dual_dingo 4y ago
Adobe has a long, well documented history of screwing their users, e.g. with their switch to this stupid Creative Cloud bullshit. It's just natural and common sense to look for alternatives if you rely on Figma and don't trust them to be a viable product in the hands of Adobe.
- marban 4y ago
  Adobe changed/is going to change a lot for the better under Scott Belsky.
  - psygn89 4y ago
    Any supporting articles that would ease minds?
- panzagl 4y ago
  So Adobe screwed their users by making them switch to a subscription model like Figma has used from day one?
  - psweber 4y ago
    Until you need a team, Figma is free.
    - jillesvangurp 4y ago
      For now.
  - behnamoh 4y ago
    This is HN, where developers diss companies’ decisions while they would do the same. It’s actually kinda hypocritical tbh.
    - aikinai 4y ago
      It’s not hypocritical. Most of the comments I saw in the initial thread clearly supported both angles. “Wow that sucks, but huge congrats to the team!” Looks to me like most people acknowledge that it’s great and natural for the company but just feel distraught by the implication for users.
  - the_mar 4y ago
    What? Figma is free for personal use. I have no problem paying a subscription fee for a corporate account. Having to fork over $100 a month to adobe for personal use is ridiculous. Problem with adobe there was never a free tier
    - panzagl 4y ago
      If you're not the customer you're the product. Figma just cashed you out.
      - the_mar 4y ago
        Ok cool. Still better than forking over 100s of dollars a month for CC
        TylerE 4y ago
        If you're paying hundreds, you're getting ripped off. The full CC suite is $55/month
        skyyler 4y ago
        But that's not the point. The point is that we dislike Adobe and we don't want to deal with them in any context.
        TylerE 4y ago
        So feels not reals?
        the_mar 4y ago
        No the point is that adobe has shitty business practices and their software is also bloated and crappy and has done fuck all to make my life as a designer easier in the past decade. The fact that overwhelming amount of designers switched over to figma in the past few years, proves that how people feel about adobe is very real. Personally I am never thrilled to switch software and endure initial period of relearning how to do my job in a new tool unless there are measurable advantages. I ve used adobe products since the age of 12 and not having to install their crappy software on any computer since 2019 has been liberating af
marban 4y ago
Typical HN — Anything that goes under the umbrella of big corp gets thrown under the bus, while everyone dreams of selling out one day.
- behnamoh 4y ago
  Agreed. Remember HN’s reaction to “I don’t care about cookies” extension being bought by Avast? or BitWarden’s sale and the many alternatives that people started sharing on HN? These kinda of reactions by HN are actually hypocritical tbh.
  - mixmastamyk 4y ago
    It’s almost like there’s more than one person on this site, with differing opinions. :-D
  - exodust 4y ago
    > Remember HN’s reaction Who is HN? Is you HN? Did you add your thoughts about Avast and the acquisition of the browser extension? If you found a common opinion on that topic, perhaps it's because data harvesting and selling user data is a common pattern associated with similar acquisitions. It's not like people latch onto gloomy conspiracies pulled from the nearest echo chamber, repeating them in unison, swaying to the beat of an HN drum. Is that what you're suggesting?
    - behnamoh 4y ago
      I'm only part of HN. No I did not write about Avast takeover of the extension; I simply deleted the extension on my own machine. At the end of the day, "data harvesting and selling user data" is done by programmers. I find it unacceptable that some do it and then come to HN to complain about other people's work.
      - exodust 4y ago
        You're making a huge assumption and generalization that "developers do it, then complain about it". What evidence do you have for this? Sounds to me like you're making things up, then broadly accusing people of those things you made up.
parasubvert 4y ago
It is a bit extreme. However they have a history of jacking up prices, bundling things that independent users don’t want bundled, and slowing improvements. That said, changing doesn’t really make much sense at the moment, it does make sense to think through the point you will change.
- scarface74 4y ago
  Opposite anecdote. I used CoolEdit before it was acquired by Adobe and became Adobe Audition. It’s a much better product now and is not bundled with anything else.
- discardedrefuse 4y ago
  Changing may not make sense, but those getting started might want to plant roots elsewhere.
moomoo11 4y ago
Not at all. Maybe if adobe didn’t have such a terrible reputation it would be different.
insane_dreamer 4y ago
Creative Cloud -- need I say more?
- silent_cal 4y ago
  The only thing wrong with Creative Cloud is the cancellation fees. Other than that it's an awesome software bundle, and the pricing is really fair for what it is, I think. For example, Adobe After Effects is so powerful that just learning it well can be the start of a career.
  - insane_dreamer 4y ago
    The individual Adobe products themselves are quite good; it's CC and all the processes it insists on running that you can't get rid of that I don't like.
    - the_mar 4y ago
      For real. Although I do remember how much i hated that “flip horizontally” meant exactly the opposite thing in Ps and Ai
kmos17 4y ago
Adobe has a long history of increased prices with stagnating products, the entire creative suite subscription pricing model is just so user hostile. I am not necessarily against subscriptions, but the complexity of the packages and dark patterns of hiding cancelation fees on monthly plans and offering reductions when someone tries to cancel is just a bad experience. For the vast majority of users core products like photoshop or lightroom have not really added any major new feature justifying ongoing subscription pricing being the only option.
shabbatt 4y ago
I believe this attitude is local to HN. I don't see employers ditching Figma, they are locked in.
vagrantJin 4y ago
If MBAs really are for the intelligent, they'd leave Figma well alone and maybe put an Adobe logo somewhere and keep the team doing as they did, making money and keeping customers genuinely happy. ...But I have a better chance of finding the 'z' in 'Susan'
- klabb3 4y ago
  You don't pay $20B for a $400M revenue product with 1200 employees to pay if you're planning to keep things as they are. Best case scenario is that they accept that figma is superior and let Xd die instead. That said, they'll definitely change pricing and spend eng resources on integrations with their other crap. Oh, and you'll need an Adobe account for sure.
yamtaddle 4y ago
Looking around for a life raft is just common sense when a big tech company acquires a product you use. Even if you don't necessarily jump on it immediately. Odds are pretty good it will one or more of: 1) Stagnate, 2) Be closed down, 3) Become much worse.
9935c101ab17a66 4y ago
On more than one occasion, I’ve had Adobe customer service reps outright lie in attempts to convince me not to cancel creative cloud. For example, I wanted to cancel my CC subscription, and when I contacted their terrible chat support (fuck Adobe for not letting me cancel it on my own? and they offered me two months free. I said no. They upped it to four months free, and I specially asked if I could cancel after the four free months if I wanted. The Adobe customer service person said “of course, no proven”. Four months later, I try to cancel and guess what? They are saying I agreed to a yearly subscription and I have eight months left. I explain that I specifically asked about that four months ago, and ask him to consult the conversation logs. They insist they don’t keep logs and there is nothing they can do. After some back and forth, the rep SENDS ME a excerpt that supports their argument (the excerpt was taken out of context and was meaningless on its own of course). I immediately pointed out that they had just confirmed the chat log of the previous conversation did exist, that they were lying, and I wanted to speak to a supervisor. The service person quickly agreed to cancel my sub without penalty, said their supervisor wasn’t available and disconnected. Single-handedly one of the most under-handed CS experiences I’ve ever had, and I’ve come across countless other stories similar to my own. Adobe is scum.

Adobe has a long, well documented history of screwing their users, e.g. with their switch to this stupid Creative Cloud bullshit. It's just natural and common sense to look for alternatives if you rely on Figma and don't trust them to be a viable product in the hands of Adobe.

marban 4y ago
Adobe changed/is going to change a lot for the better under Scott Belsky.
- psygn89 4y ago
  Any supporting articles that would ease minds?
panzagl 4y ago
So Adobe screwed their users by making them switch to a subscription model like Figma has used from day one?
- psweber 4y ago
  Until you need a team, Figma is free.
  - jillesvangurp 4y ago
    For now.
- behnamoh 4y ago
  This is HN, where developers diss companies’ decisions while they would do the same. It’s actually kinda hypocritical tbh.
  - aikinai 4y ago
    It’s not hypocritical. Most of the comments I saw in the initial thread clearly supported both angles. “Wow that sucks, but huge congrats to the team!” Looks to me like most people acknowledge that it’s great and natural for the company but just feel distraught by the implication for users.
- the_mar 4y ago
  What? Figma is free for personal use. I have no problem paying a subscription fee for a corporate account. Having to fork over $100 a month to adobe for personal use is ridiculous. Problem with adobe there was never a free tier
  - panzagl 4y ago
    If you're not the customer you're the product. Figma just cashed you out.
    - the_mar 4y ago
      Ok cool. Still better than forking over 100s of dollars a month for CC
      - TylerE 4y ago
        If you're paying hundreds, you're getting ripped off. The full CC suite is $55/month
        skyyler 4y ago
        But that's not the point. The point is that we dislike Adobe and we don't want to deal with them in any context.
        TylerE 4y ago
        So feels not reals?
        the_mar 4y ago
        No the point is that adobe has shitty business practices and their software is also bloated and crappy and has done fuck all to make my life as a designer easier in the past decade. The fact that overwhelming amount of designers switched over to figma in the past few years, proves that how people feel about adobe is very real. Personally I am never thrilled to switch software and endure initial period of relearning how to do my job in a new tool unless there are measurable advantages. I ve used adobe products since the age of 12 and not having to install their crappy software on any computer since 2019 has been liberating af

marban 4y ago

Typical HN — Anything that goes under the umbrella of big corp gets thrown under the bus, while everyone dreams of selling out one day.

behnamoh 4y ago
Agreed. Remember HN’s reaction to “I don’t care about cookies” extension being bought by Avast? or BitWarden’s sale and the many alternatives that people started sharing on HN? These kinda of reactions by HN are actually hypocritical tbh.
- mixmastamyk 4y ago
  It’s almost like there’s more than one person on this site, with differing opinions. :-D
- exodust 4y ago
  > Remember HN’s reaction Who is HN? Is you HN? Did you add your thoughts about Avast and the acquisition of the browser extension? If you found a common opinion on that topic, perhaps it's because data harvesting and selling user data is a common pattern associated with similar acquisitions. It's not like people latch onto gloomy conspiracies pulled from the nearest echo chamber, repeating them in unison, swaying to the beat of an HN drum. Is that what you're suggesting?
  - behnamoh 4y ago
    I'm only part of HN. No I did not write about Avast takeover of the extension; I simply deleted the extension on my own machine. At the end of the day, "data harvesting and selling user data" is done by programmers. I find it unacceptable that some do it and then come to HN to complain about other people's work.
    - exodust 4y ago
      You're making a huge assumption and generalization that "developers do it, then complain about it". What evidence do you have for this? Sounds to me like you're making things up, then broadly accusing people of those things you made up.

parasubvert 4y ago

It is a bit extreme. However they have a history of jacking up prices, bundling things that independent users don’t want bundled, and slowing improvements. That said, changing doesn’t really make much sense at the moment, it does make sense to think through the point you will change.

scarface74 4y ago
Opposite anecdote. I used CoolEdit before it was acquired by Adobe and became Adobe Audition. It’s a much better product now and is not bundled with anything else.
discardedrefuse 4y ago
Changing may not make sense, but those getting started might want to plant roots elsewhere.

moomoo11 4y ago

Not at all. Maybe if adobe didn’t have such a terrible reputation it would be different.

insane_dreamer 4y ago

Creative Cloud -- need I say more?

silent_cal 4y ago
The only thing wrong with Creative Cloud is the cancellation fees. Other than that it's an awesome software bundle, and the pricing is really fair for what it is, I think. For example, Adobe After Effects is so powerful that just learning it well can be the start of a career.
- insane_dreamer 4y ago
  The individual Adobe products themselves are quite good; it's CC and all the processes it insists on running that you can't get rid of that I don't like.
  - the_mar 4y ago
    For real. Although I do remember how much i hated that “flip horizontally” meant exactly the opposite thing in Ps and Ai

kmos17 4y ago

Adobe has a long history of increased prices with stagnating products, the entire creative suite subscription pricing model is just so user hostile. I am not necessarily against subscriptions, but the complexity of the packages and dark patterns of hiding cancelation fees on monthly plans and offering reductions when someone tries to cancel is just a bad experience. For the vast majority of users core products like photoshop or lightroom have not really added any major new feature justifying ongoing subscription pricing being the only option.

shabbatt 4y ago

I believe this attitude is local to HN. I don't see employers ditching Figma, they are locked in.

vagrantJin 4y ago

If MBAs really are for the intelligent, they'd leave Figma well alone and maybe put an Adobe logo somewhere and keep the team doing as they did, making money and keeping customers genuinely happy. ...But I have a better chance of finding the 'z' in 'Susan'

klabb3 4y ago
You don't pay $20B for a $400M revenue product with 1200 employees to pay if you're planning to keep things as they are. Best case scenario is that they accept that figma is superior and let Xd die instead. That said, they'll definitely change pricing and spend eng resources on integrations with their other crap. Oh, and you'll need an Adobe account for sure.

yamtaddle 4y ago

Looking around for a life raft is just common sense when a big tech company acquires a product you use. Even if you don't necessarily jump on it immediately. Odds are pretty good it will one or more of: 1) Stagnate, 2) Be closed down, 3) Become much worse.

9935c101ab17a66 4y ago

On more than one occasion, I’ve had Adobe customer service reps outright lie in attempts to convince me not to cancel creative cloud. For example, I wanted to cancel my CC subscription, and when I contacted their terrible chat support (fuck Adobe for not letting me cancel it on my own? and they offered me two months free. I said no. They upped it to four months free, and I specially asked if I could cancel after the four free months if I wanted. The Adobe customer service person said “of course, no proven”. Four months later, I try to cancel and guess what? They are saying I agreed to a yearly subscription and I have eight months left. I explain that I specifically asked about that four months ago, and ask him to consult the conversation logs. They insist they don’t keep logs and there is nothing they can do. After some back and forth, the rep SENDS ME a excerpt that supports their argument (the excerpt was taken out of context and was meaningless on its own of course). I immediately pointed out that they had just confirmed the chat log of the previous conversation did exist, that they were lying, and I wanted to speak to a supervisor. The service person quickly agreed to cancel my sub without penalty, said their supervisor wasn’t available and disconnected. Single-handedly one of the most under-handed CS experiences I’ve ever had, and I’ve come across countless other stories similar to my own. Adobe is scum.