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Of course, it's Taboola. Not shocking at all. But why did Microsoft allowed Taboola in the first place despite Taboola's reputation? That's a question that I w

Of course, it's Taboola. Not shocking at all. But why did Microsoft allowed Taboola in the first place despite Taboola's reputation? That's a question that I want to know the answer to.

veeti 4y ago
One weird trick, security teams hate him.
worble 4y ago
I ask myself the same question with regards to their Klarna partnership in Edge. Are Microsoft really so hurt for cash they're willing to sacrifice their userbase for a few bucks? It seems crazy they'd stake their reputation like this, especially considering their corporate focus.
- JumpCrisscross 4y ago
  > same question with regards to their Klarna partnership American here. What’s the beef with Klarna?
  - iakov 4y ago
    Horrendous rates, non-clear fees, everything packed in a nice UI that leads clueless folks right into a trap. It's a scam scheme for financially illiterate people IMO. The fact that it's added into a default browser in a most popular OS in the world adds insult to the injury.
    - JumpCrisscross 4y ago
      I’m generally sceptical of BNPL. Is Klarna worse than the category?
      - wowokay 4y ago
        No, I think it’s in that bucket, personally I haven’t had a problem with them.
    - Tijdreiziger 4y ago
      Wait, I've used Klarna (not via Edge) and I've never paid any interest rates or fees. You just select Klarna as payment method and then you have 45 days to settle the bill. I've even been overdue on a bill (I forgot about it) and they just sent me an email asking to pay, still no fees. Of course if I had continued to neglect the bill, fees might have started kicking in at some point, but that's no different from any other postpaid service.
    - smachiz 4y ago
      I don't think you're right about Klarna. I mean sure, it enables people to spend outside their means, but it hardly seems predatory. If I'm reading this right, the late payment fee is maximum of $7 for their 4 payment thing? https://cdn.klarna.com/1.0/shared/content/legal/terms/0/en_us/sliceitinx https://cdn.klarna.com/1.0/shared/content/legal/terms/0/en_u... If you bounce a check or an ACH the fee seems to be $27 (but not more than you owe) for their 30 day plan: https://cdn.klarna.com/1.0/shared/content/legal/terms/0/en_us/invoice https://cdn.klarna.com/1.0/shared/content/legal/terms/0/en_u... Their pay over time thing seems to be 0-29.99% which seems in line with credit cards? I mean, sure, I guess making it easy for people who make bad financial choices isn't great... but it's also easy for people who are making good financial choices.
- dagw 4y ago
  Are Microsoft really so hurt for cash they're willing to sacrifice their userbase for a few bucks? Microsoft isn't, but somewhere within Microsoft there is probably team who's KPI for the year is "increase Edge ad revenue by $N million". This team is completely removed from the "make Edge a great browser" team.
- matheusmoreira 4y ago
  > they're willing to sacrifice their userbase for a few bucks Is there even a single corporation on earth that won't eventually do this? All it takes for this to happen is some executive or manager deciding they want a bonus. Shareholders demand perpetual growth and by god they're gonna deliver it. I'd say it should be illegal to profitably harm people like this but everybody knows these people always get away with everything anyway. They already break existing laws and get a slap on the wrist at best.
MengerSponge 4y ago
I'm not going to comb through MSFT's financials, but I'm willing to bet it involves Taboola backing a dump truck full of cash up to Redmond.
- rzwitserloot 4y ago
  Microsoft clearly cares about their brand, and cares _a lot_ about making MS Edge a success. They're evidently willing to spend about 10 billion dollars on it or so at least (given that their relentless pushing it is risking the EU slapping them down for this at the tune of hundreds of billions of dollars and the risk of that happening is at least 10%. They've done it before, and since then the EU has become more annoyed at such practices, especially from USA companies), that's some easy math. So, either Taboola's dump truck had more than 10 billion dollars in it, or whomever made this call is an idiot, and the management above them is asleep at the wheel (seems like occam's answer here), or I'm missing something.
  - capableweb 4y ago
    > Microsoft clearly cares about their brand Is that really so obvious? Granted, I just use Windows and no other Microsoft products, but the way they are treating Windows, it does not seem to me that they actually care about their brand, they care about maximizing profits, since they have been introducing more and more ads into their OS.
  - dagw 4y ago
    I don't know. I get the feeling the no one at Microsoft cares about Microsoft. The Office team obviously cares deeply about Office, the Edge team about Edge, the XBox team about the Xbox, the Visual Studio team about Visual Studio and so on, but no one actually cares about Microsoft. No one is making decisions with a holistic view about what is good for the company as a whole. The people who made this decision are only answerable to their team and hitting their targets. They don't care about the effects it has on other parts of the company, and don't have incentives to either.
    - 4y ago
xani_ 4y ago
Money ?
mehlmao 4y ago
A few years ago I got really into the daily challenges in Windows 10 solitaire. It had leaderboards and of course, advertisements. I generally browse with an ad blocker so I was shocked by what I saw inside the unfiltered Windows app. About 95% of the ads were Taboola / Outbrain garbage designed to lead senior citizens into scams. Usually the ads are framed like they're stories from a news site. Secrets your doctor doesn't want you to know, (D or R) politicians just signed a bill that will let you save money refinancing your mortgage, your computer might have virus!!!!!1! All these ads are there to prey on vulnerable people. I don't know how Microsoft, Taboola, Outbrain, etc. get away with it.
- BLKNSLVR 4y ago
  Blocking advertising should be on a cyber security checklist these days. The fact that companies the size of Microsoft and Google refuse to properly sanitize their platforms is, just, gross behaviour begging for regulation. It obviously costs them less in lobbying than it would to properly vet the ads they show. Here's an example of Google advertising a scam: https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-06-21/scammers-using-text-messages-calls-emails-fake-ads-to-get-money/101167848 https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-06-21/scammers-using-text-m...

Of course, it's Taboola. Not shocking at all. But why did Microsoft allowed Taboola in the first place despite Taboola's reputation? That's a question that I want to know the answer to.

veeti 4y ago

One weird trick, security teams hate him.

worble 4y ago

I ask myself the same question with regards to their Klarna partnership in Edge. Are Microsoft really so hurt for cash they're willing to sacrifice their userbase for a few bucks? It seems crazy they'd stake their reputation like this, especially considering their corporate focus.

JumpCrisscross 4y ago
> same question with regards to their Klarna partnership American here. What’s the beef with Klarna?
- iakov 4y ago
  Horrendous rates, non-clear fees, everything packed in a nice UI that leads clueless folks right into a trap. It's a scam scheme for financially illiterate people IMO. The fact that it's added into a default browser in a most popular OS in the world adds insult to the injury.
  - JumpCrisscross 4y ago
    I’m generally sceptical of BNPL. Is Klarna worse than the category?
    - wowokay 4y ago
      No, I think it’s in that bucket, personally I haven’t had a problem with them.
  - Tijdreiziger 4y ago
    Wait, I've used Klarna (not via Edge) and I've never paid any interest rates or fees. You just select Klarna as payment method and then you have 45 days to settle the bill. I've even been overdue on a bill (I forgot about it) and they just sent me an email asking to pay, still no fees. Of course if I had continued to neglect the bill, fees might have started kicking in at some point, but that's no different from any other postpaid service.
  - smachiz 4y ago
    I don't think you're right about Klarna. I mean sure, it enables people to spend outside their means, but it hardly seems predatory. If I'm reading this right, the late payment fee is maximum of $7 for their 4 payment thing? https://cdn.klarna.com/1.0/shared/content/legal/terms/0/en_us/sliceitinx https://cdn.klarna.com/1.0/shared/content/legal/terms/0/en_u... If you bounce a check or an ACH the fee seems to be $27 (but not more than you owe) for their 30 day plan: https://cdn.klarna.com/1.0/shared/content/legal/terms/0/en_us/invoice https://cdn.klarna.com/1.0/shared/content/legal/terms/0/en_u... Their pay over time thing seems to be 0-29.99% which seems in line with credit cards? I mean, sure, I guess making it easy for people who make bad financial choices isn't great... but it's also easy for people who are making good financial choices.
dagw 4y ago
Are Microsoft really so hurt for cash they're willing to sacrifice their userbase for a few bucks? Microsoft isn't, but somewhere within Microsoft there is probably team who's KPI for the year is "increase Edge ad revenue by $N million". This team is completely removed from the "make Edge a great browser" team.
matheusmoreira 4y ago
> they're willing to sacrifice their userbase for a few bucks Is there even a single corporation on earth that won't eventually do this? All it takes for this to happen is some executive or manager deciding they want a bonus. Shareholders demand perpetual growth and by god they're gonna deliver it. I'd say it should be illegal to profitably harm people like this but everybody knows these people always get away with everything anyway. They already break existing laws and get a slap on the wrist at best.

MengerSponge 4y ago

I'm not going to comb through MSFT's financials, but I'm willing to bet it involves Taboola backing a dump truck full of cash up to Redmond.

rzwitserloot 4y ago
Microsoft clearly cares about their brand, and cares _a lot_ about making MS Edge a success. They're evidently willing to spend about 10 billion dollars on it or so at least (given that their relentless pushing it is risking the EU slapping them down for this at the tune of hundreds of billions of dollars and the risk of that happening is at least 10%. They've done it before, and since then the EU has become more annoyed at such practices, especially from USA companies), that's some easy math. So, either Taboola's dump truck had more than 10 billion dollars in it, or whomever made this call is an idiot, and the management above them is asleep at the wheel (seems like occam's answer here), or I'm missing something.
- capableweb 4y ago
  > Microsoft clearly cares about their brand Is that really so obvious? Granted, I just use Windows and no other Microsoft products, but the way they are treating Windows, it does not seem to me that they actually care about their brand, they care about maximizing profits, since they have been introducing more and more ads into their OS.
- dagw 4y ago
  I don't know. I get the feeling the no one at Microsoft cares about Microsoft. The Office team obviously cares deeply about Office, the Edge team about Edge, the XBox team about the Xbox, the Visual Studio team about Visual Studio and so on, but no one actually cares about Microsoft. No one is making decisions with a holistic view about what is good for the company as a whole. The people who made this decision are only answerable to their team and hitting their targets. They don't care about the effects it has on other parts of the company, and don't have incentives to either.
  - 4y ago

xani_ 4y ago

Money ?

mehlmao 4y ago

A few years ago I got really into the daily challenges in Windows 10 solitaire. It had leaderboards and of course, advertisements. I generally browse with an ad blocker so I was shocked by what I saw inside the unfiltered Windows app. About 95% of the ads were Taboola / Outbrain garbage designed to lead senior citizens into scams. Usually the ads are framed like they're stories from a news site. Secrets your doctor doesn't want you to know, (D or R) politicians just signed a bill that will let you save money refinancing your mortgage, your computer might have virus!!!!!1! All these ads are there to prey on vulnerable people. I don't know how Microsoft, Taboola, Outbrain, etc. get away with it.

BLKNSLVR 4y ago
Blocking advertising should be on a cyber security checklist these days. The fact that companies the size of Microsoft and Google refuse to properly sanitize their platforms is, just, gross behaviour begging for regulation. It obviously costs them less in lobbying than it would to properly vet the ads they show. Here's an example of Google advertising a scam: https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-06-21/scammers-using-text-messages-calls-emails-fake-ads-to-get-money/101167848 https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-06-21/scammers-using-text-m...