5 ms·

> the left, with its eternal desire to monitor what everyone says or even thinks. Would you say that the NSA is a left wing organization then?

anshorei 4y ago
No, but the opposition that the left once fronted to the NSA's surveillance has withered in the past ten years or so and (some) republicans have picked up the slack. Not too long ago the "war on terror" was considered to be the road to authoritarianism, now democrats are openly championing making it a new domestic war on terror. To those who opposed the war on terror from the beginning it's scary how quickly this opposition was abandoned by some once they could be the ones to wield it.
- acdw 4y ago
  I'm really bothered by the way you casually conflate an actual war in the middle east---the longest war in American history, by the way---with a metaphorical war on domestic violent extremism and neonazism. these are two very different things.
  - anshorei 4y ago
    I used quotes to indicate I'm not talking about the war itself but about the surveillance state established in the aftermath of 9/11 (and shenanigans such as the pushing of mentally ill people into acts of terrorism they would never have committed without interference), which is the clear parallel politicians themselves want to draw when they say "war on domestic terror" (unless you believe they want to start another civil war by deploying troops in the states). Same as one would with "war on drugs".
- michaelmrose 4y ago
  - philippejara 4y ago
    Democracy isn't a king of the hill match, if some loonies managed to take over the capitol they'd just get siege'd out. How do you honestly think this would go? they take the capitol and trump shows up and says "im the president for another term" then everyone goes home and ignores the corpse of Mike Pence?
    - dane-pgp 4y ago
      > How do you honestly think this would go? They destroy the certifications of the electoral votes from the states (as almost happened[0]), causing various states to (disingenuously) disagree about how to replace the lost documents. Enough FUD (and lawsuits, and delays) would be generated during this period of public disorientation that the Republican party could exploit the ambiguity of the Constitutional phrase "a majority of the whole number of Electors appointed"[1] and trigger the contingent election procedure described in the Twelfth Amendment.[2] Since a majority of states at the time had Republican representation, they would have elected Trump and the Democrats would have not been able to stop them, even if Trump did eventually let them back into the Capitol. [0] https://www.businessinsider.com/senate-aides-rescued-electoral-votes-before-congress-evacuated-capitol-2021-1 https://www.businessinsider.com/senate-aides-rescued-elector... [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electoral_Count_Act#Majority_of_electors https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electoral_Count_Act#Majority_o... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contingent_election https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contingent_election
      - sidewndr46 4y ago
        If the US is so fragile that a box of paper is somehow key to the stability of an entire empire, we're pretty much doomed. Also your statement that "Since a majority of states at the time had Republican representation, they would have elected Trump" is laughable. It's well known that Trump asked multiple Republican governors to "find some votes" and they obviously did not do this. Even if someone is a demagogue that doesn't make them willing to commit a career ending felony. After all, being a demagogue got them a long way. Not by falsifying election documents.
icare_1er 4y ago

anshorei 4y ago

No, but the opposition that the left once fronted to the NSA's surveillance has withered in the past ten years or so and (some) republicans have picked up the slack. Not too long ago the "war on terror" was considered to be the road to authoritarianism, now democrats are openly championing making it a new domestic war on terror. To those who opposed the war on terror from the beginning it's scary how quickly this opposition was abandoned by some once they could be the ones to wield it.

acdw 4y ago
I'm really bothered by the way you casually conflate an actual war in the middle east---the longest war in American history, by the way---with a metaphorical war on domestic violent extremism and neonazism. these are two very different things.
- anshorei 4y ago
  I used quotes to indicate I'm not talking about the war itself but about the surveillance state established in the aftermath of 9/11 (and shenanigans such as the pushing of mentally ill people into acts of terrorism they would never have committed without interference), which is the clear parallel politicians themselves want to draw when they say "war on domestic terror" (unless you believe they want to start another civil war by deploying troops in the states). Same as one would with "war on drugs".
michaelmrose 4y ago
- philippejara 4y ago
  Democracy isn't a king of the hill match, if some loonies managed to take over the capitol they'd just get siege'd out. How do you honestly think this would go? they take the capitol and trump shows up and says "im the president for another term" then everyone goes home and ignores the corpse of Mike Pence?
  - dane-pgp 4y ago
    > How do you honestly think this would go? They destroy the certifications of the electoral votes from the states (as almost happened[0]), causing various states to (disingenuously) disagree about how to replace the lost documents. Enough FUD (and lawsuits, and delays) would be generated during this period of public disorientation that the Republican party could exploit the ambiguity of the Constitutional phrase "a majority of the whole number of Electors appointed"[1] and trigger the contingent election procedure described in the Twelfth Amendment.[2] Since a majority of states at the time had Republican representation, they would have elected Trump and the Democrats would have not been able to stop them, even if Trump did eventually let them back into the Capitol. [0] https://www.businessinsider.com/senate-aides-rescued-electoral-votes-before-congress-evacuated-capitol-2021-1 https://www.businessinsider.com/senate-aides-rescued-elector... [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electoral_Count_Act#Majority_of_electors https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electoral_Count_Act#Majority_o... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contingent_election https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contingent_election
    - sidewndr46 4y ago
      If the US is so fragile that a box of paper is somehow key to the stability of an entire empire, we're pretty much doomed. Also your statement that "Since a majority of states at the time had Republican representation, they would have elected Trump" is laughable. It's well known that Trump asked multiple Republican governors to "find some votes" and they obviously did not do this. Even if someone is a demagogue that doesn't make them willing to commit a career ending felony. After all, being a demagogue got them a long way. Not by falsifying election documents.

icare_1er 4y ago