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While I’m generally all for consumer protections, you cannot secure against cases like this. The person affected was obviously ignoring repeated prompts for a c

by hrbf 4y ago

While I’m generally all for consumer protections, you cannot secure against cases like this. The person affected was obviously ignoring repeated prompts for a current phone number, on a free account nonetheless. The only reliable alternative I see is requiring a government photo ID containing a permanent physical address on account creation. I wouldn’t want that, would you? And even then, some would manage to create impossible situations. It sucks, really hard. No other way to paint it. I’m not arguing for Google here. Still, the user has responsibilities too. If you ignore an oil warning light on your car for too long, eventually the engine breaks.

nosianu 4y ago
> If you ignore an oil warning light on your car for too long, eventually the engine breaks. The comparison falls flat though when you consider that you can pay money and get the car fixed and still have the car in the end. The complaint is not "fix my self-inflicted problems for free for me", it is that there is no way to get anything fixed even if one is willing to pay and acknowledge it's one's own fault.
- hrbf 4y ago
  It is not meant as a strict comparison and I believe you know that. IIRC, HN asks to take the strongest points of an argument, not the weakest.
  - highwaylights 4y ago
    To be fair, the parent is focusing on the crux of the problem though. If this has happened (and I can think of a few other ways for this to all go wrong that involve less carelessness on the part of the account holder) it’s quite substantially more serious than having to pay to fix a car. There are very real consequences to not having access to an e-mail account that reach far beyond the hassle of creating a new one. They reach far beyond even losing your current emails. Google (and others) slick account creation funnels belie the seriousness of what you’re doing and the devastating consequences if anything goes wrong. Regulation is needed urgently, but will only happen when enough famous-but-not-famous-enough-to-get-special-treatment people complain.
    - hrbf 4y ago
      Fair enough, I agree. Given this requirement, free accounts will probably not be possible. If a person uses a free email account for critical transactions, what can one say? There’s a bigger issue here regarding our increasingly digital lives that needs more comprehensive change than regulation of some areas. Paper mail delivery is guaranteed in most of the industrialized world, more or less. Email is increasingly used as an alternative but is entirely the recipients’ responsibility. Receiving paper mail costs nothing, that’s probably why so many people choose a free provider like Google. Also, how would you solve the issue of identity verification in case a user loses means of access?

by hrbf 4y ago

nosianu 4y ago

> If you ignore an oil warning light on your car for too long, eventually the engine breaks. The comparison falls flat though when you consider that you can pay money and get the car fixed and still have the car in the end. The complaint is not "fix my self-inflicted problems for free for me", it is that there is no way to get anything fixed even if one is willing to pay and acknowledge it's one's own fault.

hrbf 4y ago
It is not meant as a strict comparison and I believe you know that. IIRC, HN asks to take the strongest points of an argument, not the weakest.
- highwaylights 4y ago
  To be fair, the parent is focusing on the crux of the problem though. If this has happened (and I can think of a few other ways for this to all go wrong that involve less carelessness on the part of the account holder) it’s quite substantially more serious than having to pay to fix a car. There are very real consequences to not having access to an e-mail account that reach far beyond the hassle of creating a new one. They reach far beyond even losing your current emails. Google (and others) slick account creation funnels belie the seriousness of what you’re doing and the devastating consequences if anything goes wrong. Regulation is needed urgently, but will only happen when enough famous-but-not-famous-enough-to-get-special-treatment people complain.
  - hrbf 4y ago
    Fair enough, I agree. Given this requirement, free accounts will probably not be possible. If a person uses a free email account for critical transactions, what can one say? There’s a bigger issue here regarding our increasingly digital lives that needs more comprehensive change than regulation of some areas. Paper mail delivery is guaranteed in most of the industrialized world, more or less. Email is increasingly used as an alternative but is entirely the recipients’ responsibility. Receiving paper mail costs nothing, that’s probably why so many people choose a free provider like Google. Also, how would you solve the issue of identity verification in case a user loses means of access?