3 ms·

i'm not one to defend mega-corporations, but pretending a company that originated from belting out hamburgers as fast as possible is supposed to be doing social

by serf 4y ago

i'm not one to defend mega-corporations, but pretending a company that originated from belting out hamburgers as fast as possible is supposed to be doing social-positive humanitarian work is ridiculous. also, just to entertain this notion, fast food is interlinked with poverty and substandard living conditions, too -- most folks tend to think that rather than being the cause of these conditions that fast food is simply the available option. It's a special kind of privileged to be able to yell "Shut these places down that serve unhealthy food." without first securing healthy food for those in need. Let's first think about what happens when the only food source available to certain groups gets regulated out of existence. I'm not saying that they don't hold a level of responsibility -- what I AM saying is that no food is worse than bad food.

blowski 4y ago
These two positions seem a bit extreme. 1. Shut down McDonalds! 2. But then poor people will starve to death! I imagine there’s a solution somewhere in the middle. Perhaps McDonalds is taxed higher, banned from advertising. Subsidies are pushed for healthier lifestyles in those neighbourhoods.
- drekk 4y ago
  Or, and I'm just entirely spitballing here, we cut out all the middlemen and provide food at dispensaries for people at no cost? The US produces enough food to feed 10 billion people. Most of it is animal feed or gets landfilled. 1 in 5 children are food insecure on the wealthiest nation in the history of this planet. It's an absolute disgrace and the children getting permanent learning disabilities due to malnutrition don't have decades for the free market to humanely allocate resources (something it's entirely incapable of doing unforced). McDonalds has employees qualifying for food stamps. On top of that we give them tax incentives for "creating jobs" as they spend all their R&D trying to maximize their food's "craveability" (addictiveness). More to the point we've made it illegal for food companies to not optimize for that because they've have a fiduciary responsibility to the shareholders. It's not a money problem. Heck, we could solve global poverty with <5% of "first world" GDP. It's an incentives problem. There's no incentive to feed Americans healthy food. There's not even an incentive to feed Americans. Which is why you get headlines like: https://apnews.com/article/portland-storms-oregon-4eebd2cd2f1b9f798667994bc871a647 https://apnews.com/article/portland-storms-oregon-4eebd2cd2f...
hackerlight 4y ago
The GP is right about the problem, but wrong about the solution. Part of the reason healthy foods are more expensive is indirectly due to the junk foods industry, which has caused our supply chains to be tightly optimized around provision of unhealthy foods. It also likely causes crime. Metabolic syndrome -> psychiatric conditions && debt to pay for insulin && lost productivity --> crime. What the GP is wrong about is the solution. We're trapped in a bad local optima here. Just immediately shutting down fast food isn't an exhaustive solution, because you suck jobs out of the local areas and it takes time for the supply chains to reoptimize around healthy food. Some kind of gradual systemic change over multiple decades is needed.
- latchkey 4y ago
  > Just immediately shutting down fast food isn't an exhaustive solution, because you suck jobs out of the local areas and it takes time for the supply chains to reoptimize around healthy food. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jamie%27s_School_Dinners https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jamie%27s_School_Dinners https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jamie_Oliver%27s_Food_Revolution https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jamie_Oliver%27s_Food_Revoluti...
latchkey 4y ago
> It's a special kind of privileged to be able to yell "Shut these places down that serve unhealthy food." without first securing healthy food for those in need. Special kind of privileged? I moved from the Bay Area to Vietnam. I've lived and traveled all around SE Asia for many years. I've seen the poorest of the poor, in the most remote places possible. I've eaten the same food. One thing they have going for them is that food is inexpensive and food is available. It is also not fast food. It is possible to feed people food that isn't crap McDonalds. The concept that it is the only thing available, is completely manufactured. The fact that people give up production of good food, for this crap, because it is cheap and easy, is a big part of the problem.

by serf 4y ago

blowski 4y ago

These two positions seem a bit extreme. 1. Shut down McDonalds! 2. But then poor people will starve to death! I imagine there’s a solution somewhere in the middle. Perhaps McDonalds is taxed higher, banned from advertising. Subsidies are pushed for healthier lifestyles in those neighbourhoods.

drekk 4y ago
Or, and I'm just entirely spitballing here, we cut out all the middlemen and provide food at dispensaries for people at no cost? The US produces enough food to feed 10 billion people. Most of it is animal feed or gets landfilled. 1 in 5 children are food insecure on the wealthiest nation in the history of this planet. It's an absolute disgrace and the children getting permanent learning disabilities due to malnutrition don't have decades for the free market to humanely allocate resources (something it's entirely incapable of doing unforced). McDonalds has employees qualifying for food stamps. On top of that we give them tax incentives for "creating jobs" as they spend all their R&D trying to maximize their food's "craveability" (addictiveness). More to the point we've made it illegal for food companies to not optimize for that because they've have a fiduciary responsibility to the shareholders. It's not a money problem. Heck, we could solve global poverty with <5% of "first world" GDP. It's an incentives problem. There's no incentive to feed Americans healthy food. There's not even an incentive to feed Americans. Which is why you get headlines like: https://apnews.com/article/portland-storms-oregon-4eebd2cd2f1b9f798667994bc871a647 https://apnews.com/article/portland-storms-oregon-4eebd2cd2f...

hackerlight 4y ago

The GP is right about the problem, but wrong about the solution. Part of the reason healthy foods are more expensive is indirectly due to the junk foods industry, which has caused our supply chains to be tightly optimized around provision of unhealthy foods. It also likely causes crime. Metabolic syndrome -> psychiatric conditions && debt to pay for insulin && lost productivity --> crime. What the GP is wrong about is the solution. We're trapped in a bad local optima here. Just immediately shutting down fast food isn't an exhaustive solution, because you suck jobs out of the local areas and it takes time for the supply chains to reoptimize around healthy food. Some kind of gradual systemic change over multiple decades is needed.

latchkey 4y ago
> Just immediately shutting down fast food isn't an exhaustive solution, because you suck jobs out of the local areas and it takes time for the supply chains to reoptimize around healthy food. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jamie%27s_School_Dinners https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jamie%27s_School_Dinners https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jamie_Oliver%27s_Food_Revolution https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jamie_Oliver%27s_Food_Revoluti...

latchkey 4y ago

> It's a special kind of privileged to be able to yell "Shut these places down that serve unhealthy food." without first securing healthy food for those in need. Special kind of privileged? I moved from the Bay Area to Vietnam. I've lived and traveled all around SE Asia for many years. I've seen the poorest of the poor, in the most remote places possible. I've eaten the same food. One thing they have going for them is that food is inexpensive and food is available. It is also not fast food. It is possible to feed people food that isn't crap McDonalds. The concept that it is the only thing available, is completely manufactured. The fact that people give up production of good food, for this crap, because it is cheap and easy, is a big part of the problem.