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I have several messaging clients installed, by virtue of working and having friends all over the world. Since I use many of them regularly in many places, it ha

I have several messaging clients installed, by virtue of working and having friends all over the world. Since I use many of them regularly in many places, it has allowed me to come to a few conclusions based on my experience. First, anything that requires a telco to be actively involved in service delivery beyond being a dumb IPv4/6 pipe is going to be terrible. Inserting those dysfunctional companies as man-in-the-middle on a global scale ensures mediocrity. RCS is a bad idea on that basis alone. Second, iMessage is really good. It is consistently the best messaging app I've used in multiple dimensions. I use many other messaging apps on a daily basis and this gap is hard to ignore. WhatsApp is pretty strong in the greater ecosystem of messaging apps, but it isn't up to the standard of iMessage. There are other common apps used around the world are quite a bit worse. Too many messaging apps focus on trite features while underinvesting in a strong architectural core, and it shows. Third, if you are going to have a big tech company orchestrating all of this, you can do a lot worse than Apple. Something being cross-platform or globally popular doesn't absolve it of being run by ethical organizations. Many popular messaging apps are expressly forbidden in some contexts, so they simply can't be used. I've never come across such a case for iMessage (or Signal), though I'm sure it probably exists somewhere. There is a case for a strong cross-platform messaging app, but RCS isn't it. And whatever it is, it needs to be at least as good as iMessage or iMessage people won't use it. Average users just want something that is feature-rich, high-quality, and without a creepy company behind it. Most alternatives to iMessage struggle to clear this hurdle, so they feel like a downgrade to iMessage users. I don't think it is a tall order to produce something to the standard of iMessage but maybe I underestimate the difficulty because it doesn't seem to happen.

grok22 4y ago
I have never used iMessage (I use Android phones). What is the 'really good' part of it? I am used to WhatsApp and it seems pretty perfect to me. Just enough features as a messaging app, but not too much.
- cafed00d 4y ago
  A few “delightful” features are: 1. When sharing multiple photos a carousel of photos is created instead of a boring boxy grid of photos. 2. You can paste stickers of your Memoji (Apple’s Bitmoji) onto text bubbles. All my friends have discovered that feature through me and they love it! 3. You can send balloons or confetti for “happy birthday” messages. 4. The latest and greatest hardware features always have tight, polished iMessage integration (on-device Siri driven replies, Dynamic Island UI bounciness etc) 5. The UI has a few nice touches like loopy loops for threaded conversations, fun animation when a message is deleted, super tight integration with Siri
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - the_third_wave 4y ago
    Those are features of the client - which I would mostly want to switch off, I loathe the Fisher-Price/Anime love child interface style this indicates. The question is what, other than platform standardisation, make this better than any of the alternative messaging protocols? Under the hood, that is. What does it have over e.g. XMPP+OMEMO, Matrix, Signal, Telegram, etc. Had e.g. XMPP+OMEMO been the standard on Android in the way that iMessage is on Apple-things, which one would have been "better"? I think they would have been more or less comparable with XMPP having the advantage of being standardised.
  - woojoo666 4y ago
    If this is all there is I don't see what makes iMessage _really good_ like the top comment emphasized. Comparing iMessage with FB Messenger (my main messenger) on the points you described: 1. Seems a bit subjective, I tend to dislike carousels 2. I guess I haven't used memoji to fairly compare this, but when it comes to stickers I liked FB messenger's offering more 3. Messenger does this as well, with balloons instead of confetti iirc 4. Dynamic Islands requires iPhone 14 right? Seems like less of an iMessage feature and more of an iPhone 14 feature. As for Siri integration, I don't use Google Assistant much but I believe it can also reply on whatsapp/messenger, you just have to specify "WhatsApp" or "Messenger" in the command 5. When it comes to animations and other small UI quirks, a lot of it is subjective. I prefer Messenger's UI over iMessage, but probably because I'm used to it
- Markoff 4y ago
  I think SMS fallback is the only killer feature missing in Whatsapp. I'd be glad to ditch my dedicated SMS app for something else (I have Whatsapp anyway already). I used Signal for few years as SMS replacement plus IM on top of it (though used IM only with family since nobody use it), but got rid off that horrible app (and same with extended family where I promoted it) and there is nothing else which I could use for SMS and IM at same time. It would be killer feature, since I must have some SMS app in phone anyway, so why not have IM app which can handle also SMS, but Signal won't touch my phone again.
ThatPlayer 4y ago
>There is a case for a strong cross-platform messaging app, but RCS isn't it. And whatever it is, it needs to be at least as good as iMessage or iMessage people won't use it. I think the case should be more for basic interoperability like the EU is doing. That's why iMessage is such a default on Apple's devices, basic interoperability with SMS. There would be a lot less people on iMessage if it was a separate app than SMS. Plenty of people would rather have a single app with good enough features, but can message everyone under the sun (SMS is not good enough). Similar to Pidgin and Trillian which had less features than using AIM or MSN Messenger directly back in the day.
- kyriakos 4y ago
  Does anyone really use SMS for communication with friends and family? With unlimited data plans being cheap and widespread there's no longer reason to use SMS. Personally I only use it for 2FA for some services which require it.
  - Handytinge 4y ago
    Yes. It's incredibly common and still the standard most places I go.
- danaris 4y ago
  Except that iMessage doesn't actually interoperate with SMS: Apple just puts the two messaging types in the Messages app, so that it's transparent to the user and the message always gets there. (It's possible that this is what you meant, and if so, I apologize; but I feel in cases like this, when we're talking about technical solutions, it's important to be precise in our language so we can avoid misunderstandings!)
  - ThatPlayer 4y ago
    That is what I mean. In the same way Pidgin put MSN Messenger and AIM, ICQ, and IRC in a single software. Like you say, Apple does the same with iMessage and SMS messing services in the Messages app.
Semaphor 4y ago
You write a lot about how much better iM is. In what way? What makes it better than WhatsApp (besides WA being Meta)? WA is the gold standard for messaging apps and Signal is playing catch up, qualitywise, over here (Germany).
- jandrewrogers 4y ago
  Aside from the features and implementation, WhatsApp is forbidden for some purposes in many countries with reason. Germany is such a country IIRC. For a subset of users an acceptable alternative is required, and some of those alternatives are markedly inferior e.g. Signal. If WhatsApp cannot be used for important things then it is not a realistic universal solution. (That isn't to say that iMessage is the solution, just that WhatsApp definitely is not.) From a user perspective, just about everything about the UI/UX and integration with the rest of your environment in WhatsApp is inferior to iMessage. The integration aspect is understandable; it is easy for Apple to tightly integrate iMessage into the rest of their environment because they own it. Nonetheless, this integration is slick and a lot of subtle automagic happens as a result. I appreciate that bit. The UI/UX gaps are less understandable, since that is a choice. WhatsApp is better than many other messaging apps but in my experience the UI/UX is noticeably inferior to iMessage in some ways. I think some of this just attempts to optimize engagement metrics or similar, because Facebook, sacrificing good design. That aside, WhatsApp has distasteful behaviors that are just Facebook-isms that don't need to exist in a messaging app. I don't appreciate its aggressive attempts to scrape my life, for example. Every Facebook property has this characteristic.
  - woojoo666 4y ago
    Any examples of how imessage integrates with the rest of iOS? And any examples of the UI/UX advantages of imessage over WhatsApp?
  - Fatnino 4y ago
    Telegram, at least from a UX perspective, is better than whatsapp in every way. I use both a lot and whenever I switch back to whatsapp I accidentally try to do telegram swipes because they are so much better and intuitive. When I switch to tg from wa this never happens because wa has trash UX.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
pier25 4y ago
> There is a case for a strong cross-platform messaging app, but RCS isn't it. Maybe but the issue here is not RCS but the refusal of Apple to sit at the table and discuss alternatives.

grok22 4y ago

I have never used iMessage (I use Android phones). What is the 'really good' part of it? I am used to WhatsApp and it seems pretty perfect to me. Just enough features as a messaging app, but not too much.

cafed00d 4y ago
A few “delightful” features are: 1. When sharing multiple photos a carousel of photos is created instead of a boring boxy grid of photos. 2. You can paste stickers of your Memoji (Apple’s Bitmoji) onto text bubbles. All my friends have discovered that feature through me and they love it! 3. You can send balloons or confetti for “happy birthday” messages. 4. The latest and greatest hardware features always have tight, polished iMessage integration (on-device Siri driven replies, Dynamic Island UI bounciness etc) 5. The UI has a few nice touches like loopy loops for threaded conversations, fun animation when a message is deleted, super tight integration with Siri
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- the_third_wave 4y ago
  Those are features of the client - which I would mostly want to switch off, I loathe the Fisher-Price/Anime love child interface style this indicates. The question is what, other than platform standardisation, make this better than any of the alternative messaging protocols? Under the hood, that is. What does it have over e.g. XMPP+OMEMO, Matrix, Signal, Telegram, etc. Had e.g. XMPP+OMEMO been the standard on Android in the way that iMessage is on Apple-things, which one would have been "better"? I think they would have been more or less comparable with XMPP having the advantage of being standardised.
- woojoo666 4y ago
  If this is all there is I don't see what makes iMessage _really good_ like the top comment emphasized. Comparing iMessage with FB Messenger (my main messenger) on the points you described: 1. Seems a bit subjective, I tend to dislike carousels 2. I guess I haven't used memoji to fairly compare this, but when it comes to stickers I liked FB messenger's offering more 3. Messenger does this as well, with balloons instead of confetti iirc 4. Dynamic Islands requires iPhone 14 right? Seems like less of an iMessage feature and more of an iPhone 14 feature. As for Siri integration, I don't use Google Assistant much but I believe it can also reply on whatsapp/messenger, you just have to specify "WhatsApp" or "Messenger" in the command 5. When it comes to animations and other small UI quirks, a lot of it is subjective. I prefer Messenger's UI over iMessage, but probably because I'm used to it
Markoff 4y ago
I think SMS fallback is the only killer feature missing in Whatsapp. I'd be glad to ditch my dedicated SMS app for something else (I have Whatsapp anyway already). I used Signal for few years as SMS replacement plus IM on top of it (though used IM only with family since nobody use it), but got rid off that horrible app (and same with extended family where I promoted it) and there is nothing else which I could use for SMS and IM at same time. It would be killer feature, since I must have some SMS app in phone anyway, so why not have IM app which can handle also SMS, but Signal won't touch my phone again.

ThatPlayer 4y ago

>There is a case for a strong cross-platform messaging app, but RCS isn't it. And whatever it is, it needs to be at least as good as iMessage or iMessage people won't use it. I think the case should be more for basic interoperability like the EU is doing. That's why iMessage is such a default on Apple's devices, basic interoperability with SMS. There would be a lot less people on iMessage if it was a separate app than SMS. Plenty of people would rather have a single app with good enough features, but can message everyone under the sun (SMS is not good enough). Similar to Pidgin and Trillian which had less features than using AIM or MSN Messenger directly back in the day.

kyriakos 4y ago
Does anyone really use SMS for communication with friends and family? With unlimited data plans being cheap and widespread there's no longer reason to use SMS. Personally I only use it for 2FA for some services which require it.
- Handytinge 4y ago
  Yes. It's incredibly common and still the standard most places I go.
danaris 4y ago
Except that iMessage doesn't actually interoperate with SMS: Apple just puts the two messaging types in the Messages app, so that it's transparent to the user and the message always gets there. (It's possible that this is what you meant, and if so, I apologize; but I feel in cases like this, when we're talking about technical solutions, it's important to be precise in our language so we can avoid misunderstandings!)
- ThatPlayer 4y ago
  That is what I mean. In the same way Pidgin put MSN Messenger and AIM, ICQ, and IRC in a single software. Like you say, Apple does the same with iMessage and SMS messing services in the Messages app.

Semaphor 4y ago

You write a lot about how much better iM is. In what way? What makes it better than WhatsApp (besides WA being Meta)? WA is the gold standard for messaging apps and Signal is playing catch up, qualitywise, over here (Germany).

jandrewrogers 4y ago
Aside from the features and implementation, WhatsApp is forbidden for some purposes in many countries with reason. Germany is such a country IIRC. For a subset of users an acceptable alternative is required, and some of those alternatives are markedly inferior e.g. Signal. If WhatsApp cannot be used for important things then it is not a realistic universal solution. (That isn't to say that iMessage is the solution, just that WhatsApp definitely is not.) From a user perspective, just about everything about the UI/UX and integration with the rest of your environment in WhatsApp is inferior to iMessage. The integration aspect is understandable; it is easy for Apple to tightly integrate iMessage into the rest of their environment because they own it. Nonetheless, this integration is slick and a lot of subtle automagic happens as a result. I appreciate that bit. The UI/UX gaps are less understandable, since that is a choice. WhatsApp is better than many other messaging apps but in my experience the UI/UX is noticeably inferior to iMessage in some ways. I think some of this just attempts to optimize engagement metrics or similar, because Facebook, sacrificing good design. That aside, WhatsApp has distasteful behaviors that are just Facebook-isms that don't need to exist in a messaging app. I don't appreciate its aggressive attempts to scrape my life, for example. Every Facebook property has this characteristic.
- woojoo666 4y ago
  Any examples of how imessage integrates with the rest of iOS? And any examples of the UI/UX advantages of imessage over WhatsApp?
- Fatnino 4y ago
  Telegram, at least from a UX perspective, is better than whatsapp in every way. I use both a lot and whenever I switch back to whatsapp I accidentally try to do telegram swipes because they are so much better and intuitive. When I switch to tg from wa this never happens because wa has trash UX.

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

pier25 4y ago

> There is a case for a strong cross-platform messaging app, but RCS isn't it. Maybe but the issue here is not RCS but the refusal of Apple to sit at the table and discuss alternatives.