5 ms·

All the alternatives off the top of my head seem worse. WhatsApp, for example, is owned by Meta. Maybe Android could pick up Matrix support out of the box?

s3p 4y ago
That's what I'm thinking about. They don't want to text people so they move to a Meta-owned service. I feel like we should all use Signal at that point.
allset_ 4y ago
How about Signal? It uses phone number as identifier so you keep your contacts list, and the app works with SMS (on Android).
- GekkePrutser 4y ago
  Signal is still a walled garden. Officially you're not even allowed to use a third party client on it. Better to have something both open source and open network (and even decentralized) like Matrix. It's also got a phone number matchmaking service for those who want it I believe, but for me it's a plus that it doesn't use the phone number as ID so you don't automatically have to share your number with everyone you chat with.
  - tadfisher 4y ago
    Moxie's gone though, so there's still hope.
    - GekkePrutser 4y ago
      Indeed, he was the most opposed to third-party clients and federation. I do also hope they will change their stance on these points, it would make Signal a lot more attractive to me.
  - heywoodlh 4y ago
    > Better to have something both open source and open network like Matrix I love Matrix, but non-technical people don't care about these points (I do, though). Matrix needs to have a better official client than Element at its current state before I think it's even worth looking at becoming mainstream. (I run a Matrix homeserver for myself with literally all of my chat communications going through it) Edit: my comment sounds super defeatist, I want to clarify that my hope is that Matrix can become something I can recommend to anyone
    - Arathorn 4y ago
      fwiw, we are frantically working on improving element, as per https://element.io/blog/an-unrecognisable-improvement-elements-new-design-is-here/ https://element.io/blog/an-unrecognisable-improvement-elemen...
      - heywoodlh 4y ago
        Yeah, I really like the new layout of Element on iOS. On desktop I use gomuks and love the crap out of it. You know, I probably should get more involved with sharing my feedback or contributing to the codebase where I can so the devs have another data point.
        GekkePrutser 4y ago
        Gomuks is great, yeah. I just wish it had more detailed picture rendering (e.g. sixel or kitty rendering) for terminals that support it.
      - GekkePrutser 4y ago
        Hmm, I actually liked group chats and 1:1 chats being in different tabs even on mobile (though I use the web view much more often). It makes it much easier to find people chats which I find much more important in general. Indeed they sometimes end up in the wrong place but I use the tagmanager to fix it. It would be nice if you could keep an option to switch this back on. One of the features that does cause confusion for me though is Spaces. Some of my bridges (the whatsapp one in particular) took it upon themselves to put their messages in a separate space, which always has me hunting around for messages, I prefer having all my chats in the same place regardless of what bridge it came from. That was my #1 reason to use Matrix: To have everything in one place. I keep deleting the Whatsapp space but the bridge puts it back. It's a nice idea but only if I can set it up the way I want to. Anyway I will see where you go with this, at least Matrix is a fully open ecosystem where I can always use the client I wish. Still looking for a nice high-density IRC-like desktop client too (the Xchat mode is nice but my main issue is with the chat list that is not compact enough, and it doesn't fix that). But anyway I'll find something. I know it's difficult to please everyone and it is probably a good idea to target the mainstream like you're doing.
  - zaik 4y ago
    Even better would be having an actual internet standard where development is not mostly dependent on a single VC-funded startup, like XMPP.
    - GekkePrutser 4y ago
      True, but XMPP is very complex and relies on tons of extensions to have the currently expected mod cons.
- bobbylarrybobby 4y ago
  Signal doesn't support multiple mobile devices
29083011397778 4y ago
Android doesn't even have built-in SIP support any more. Asking Google for a fun, geeky, open protocol to be baked into their OS is a bit of stretch at this point.

s3p 4y ago

That's what I'm thinking about. They don't want to text people so they move to a Meta-owned service. I feel like we should all use Signal at that point.

allset_ 4y ago

How about Signal? It uses phone number as identifier so you keep your contacts list, and the app works with SMS (on Android).

GekkePrutser 4y ago
Signal is still a walled garden. Officially you're not even allowed to use a third party client on it. Better to have something both open source and open network (and even decentralized) like Matrix. It's also got a phone number matchmaking service for those who want it I believe, but for me it's a plus that it doesn't use the phone number as ID so you don't automatically have to share your number with everyone you chat with.
- tadfisher 4y ago
  Moxie's gone though, so there's still hope.
  - GekkePrutser 4y ago
    Indeed, he was the most opposed to third-party clients and federation. I do also hope they will change their stance on these points, it would make Signal a lot more attractive to me.
- heywoodlh 4y ago
  > Better to have something both open source and open network like Matrix I love Matrix, but non-technical people don't care about these points (I do, though). Matrix needs to have a better official client than Element at its current state before I think it's even worth looking at becoming mainstream. (I run a Matrix homeserver for myself with literally all of my chat communications going through it) Edit: my comment sounds super defeatist, I want to clarify that my hope is that Matrix can become something I can recommend to anyone
  - Arathorn 4y ago
    fwiw, we are frantically working on improving element, as per https://element.io/blog/an-unrecognisable-improvement-elements-new-design-is-here/ https://element.io/blog/an-unrecognisable-improvement-elemen...
    - heywoodlh 4y ago
      Yeah, I really like the new layout of Element on iOS. On desktop I use gomuks and love the crap out of it. You know, I probably should get more involved with sharing my feedback or contributing to the codebase where I can so the devs have another data point.
      - GekkePrutser 4y ago
        Gomuks is great, yeah. I just wish it had more detailed picture rendering (e.g. sixel or kitty rendering) for terminals that support it.
    - GekkePrutser 4y ago
      Hmm, I actually liked group chats and 1:1 chats being in different tabs even on mobile (though I use the web view much more often). It makes it much easier to find people chats which I find much more important in general. Indeed they sometimes end up in the wrong place but I use the tagmanager to fix it. It would be nice if you could keep an option to switch this back on. One of the features that does cause confusion for me though is Spaces. Some of my bridges (the whatsapp one in particular) took it upon themselves to put their messages in a separate space, which always has me hunting around for messages, I prefer having all my chats in the same place regardless of what bridge it came from. That was my #1 reason to use Matrix: To have everything in one place. I keep deleting the Whatsapp space but the bridge puts it back. It's a nice idea but only if I can set it up the way I want to. Anyway I will see where you go with this, at least Matrix is a fully open ecosystem where I can always use the client I wish. Still looking for a nice high-density IRC-like desktop client too (the Xchat mode is nice but my main issue is with the chat list that is not compact enough, and it doesn't fix that). But anyway I'll find something. I know it's difficult to please everyone and it is probably a good idea to target the mainstream like you're doing.
- zaik 4y ago
  Even better would be having an actual internet standard where development is not mostly dependent on a single VC-funded startup, like XMPP.
  - GekkePrutser 4y ago
    True, but XMPP is very complex and relies on tons of extensions to have the currently expected mod cons.
bobbylarrybobby 4y ago
Signal doesn't support multiple mobile devices

29083011397778 4y ago

Android doesn't even have built-in SIP support any more. Asking Google for a fun, geeky, open protocol to be baked into their OS is a bit of stretch at this point.